-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Atonement Theories
- Thread starter Earth Wind and Fire
- Start date
- Status
You would be leaning the wrong way!
Substitution as trhe primary view, with others mixed into the mix...Christus Victor, with a twist of satisfaction and a side of diet moral theory.
You mean the way the early church fathers did?!? Not a chance
I need to know more about Christi’s Victor. The last time you brought it up here I stayed away from the topic. I was to ingrained in Calvinism ... and you very well know, they are all card carrying penal sub clickers. Same for the Trumpet style evangelicals. What you got for me? No pressure.Christus Victor, with a twist of satisfaction and a side of diet moral theory.
From my perspective, Christus Victor is less a theory and more a theme. The primary focus of Christus Victor is not what man must do to be reconciled to God (and this completed by Christ’s obedience in our stead) but what God has done in taking the initiative to gain victory over the sin and death that has held humanity captive. So where the substitution theory might consider the most fundamental aspect of the atonement to be God satisfying the demands of divine justice by taking our punishment upon Himself Christus Victor would consider the most fundamental aspect to be God coming to overcome evil and to free mankind from its bonds. Where substitution atonement places the righteousness of God as a fulfillment of the Law imputed to the believer in Christ, Christus Victor places the righteousness of God as being apart from the Law. That said, there is quite a bit of overlap between Christus Victor and most other theories (except, perhaps, Penal Substitution).I need to know more about Christi’s Victor. The last time you brought it up here I stayed away from the topic. I was to ingrained in Calvinism ... and you very well know, they are all card carrying penal sub clickers. Same for the Trumpet style evangelicals. What you got for me? No pressure.
I prefer the way Jesus and Paul taught!You mean the way the early church fathers did?!? Not a chance
That means he agrees with me.
Penal Substitution.
'God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.'
'God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.'
Pretty much ends the debate right there.
If the atonement was not that way, how were any of our sin debt to God ever paid for?
Nope....I believe what Paul and Jesus believed (what was written down in the Bible that they believed).
J.D. Greear's 2003 PhD dissertation at SEBTS is titled "Theosis and Muslim Evangelism: How the Recovery of a Patristic Understanding of Salvation Can Aid Evangelical Missionaries in the Evangelization of Islamic Peoples"
Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia
"Irenaeus is considered to be the first to clearly express a recapitulation view of the atonement....For Irenaeus, the ultimate goal of Christ's work of solidarity with humankind is to make humankind divine. Of Jesus he says, he 'became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself'. This idea has been most influential in the Christian East, particularly within the Orthodox Church, having been taken on by many other Church Fathers, such as Ss. Athanasius, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, and Maximus the Confessor. This Eastern Orthodox theological development out of the recapitulation view of the atonement is called theosis ('deification')."
SBC President!
Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia
"Irenaeus is considered to be the first to clearly express a recapitulation view of the atonement....For Irenaeus, the ultimate goal of Christ's work of solidarity with humankind is to make humankind divine. Of Jesus he says, he 'became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself'. This idea has been most influential in the Christian East, particularly within the Orthodox Church, having been taken on by many other Church Fathers, such as Ss. Athanasius, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, and Maximus the Confessor. This Eastern Orthodox theological development out of the recapitulation view of the atonement is called theosis ('deification')."
SBC President!
What are the most commonly held views today?
I know Christus Victor is the held by the majority of Christianity, and Penal Substitution by the majority of the Western church. There is Moral Influence. And contemporary takes on Anabaptist views (Ontological Substitution, Non-violent Atonement). And Substitution (probably 3rd?).
I know Christus Victor is the held by the majority of Christianity, and Penal Substitution by the majority of the Western church. There is Moral Influence. And contemporary takes on Anabaptist views (Ontological Substitution, Non-violent Atonement). And Substitution (probably 3rd?).
I don't think I'm about to take my theology from Wikipedia, and if we are going to take it from the Church fathers, we shall not remain Protestants or Baptists very long. Irenaeus is the grandfather of Mariolatry, so if we're going to take his views on the atonement, why are we not going to worship Mary?
I like CV but I prefer Jesus Christ conquerer like they do in the Greek Orthodox rite.
https://www.google.com/search?clien...31j46i131j0i10j46i10j46i13j33i160.LbvG2sWnyQI
I believe some cannot fathom that one view, much less several, dominated the Christian landscape centuries before more contemporary expressions developed.
- Status