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Atonement Theories

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    #1 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Substitution
     
    #2 canadyjd, Aug 10, 2018
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Christus Victor, with a twist of satisfaction and a side of diet moral theory. :Biggrin
     
    #3 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #4 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2018
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Substitution as trhe primary view, with others mixed into the mix...
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2018
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You mean the way the early church fathers did?!? Not a chance:Biggrin
     
    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I need to know more about Christi’s Victor. The last time you brought it up here I stayed away from the topic. I was to ingrained in Calvinism ... and you very well know, they are all card carrying penal sub clickers. Same for the Trumpet style evangelicals. What you got for me? No pressure. :Wink
     
    #7 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    From my perspective, Christus Victor is less a theory and more a theme. The primary focus of Christus Victor is not what man must do to be reconciled to God (and this completed by Christ’s obedience in our stead) but what God has done in taking the initiative to gain victory over the sin and death that has held humanity captive. So where the substitution theory might consider the most fundamental aspect of the atonement to be God satisfying the demands of divine justice by taking our punishment upon Himself Christus Victor would consider the most fundamental aspect to be God coming to overcome evil and to free mankind from its bonds. Where substitution atonement places the righteousness of God as a fulfillment of the Law imputed to the believer in Christ, Christus Victor places the righteousness of God as being apart from the Law. That said, there is quite a bit of overlap between Christus Victor and most other theories (except, perhaps, Penal Substitution).
     
    #8 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I prefer the way Jesus and Paul taught!
     
    #9 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2018
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That means he agrees with me. :Biggrin
     
    #10 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just as longas you hold with them that Jesus died as our sin bearer, taking on Himself the wrath of God due to us!
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2018
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Penal Substitution.
    'God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.'
     
    #12 Martin Marprelate, Aug 10, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Pretty much ends the debate right there.
     
    #13 Revmitchell, Aug 10, 2018
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If the atonement was not that way, how were any of our sin debt to God ever paid for?
     
    #14 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2018
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nope....I believe what Paul and Jesus believed (what was written down in the Bible that they believed). :p
     
    #15 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    J.D. Greear's 2003 PhD dissertation at SEBTS is titled "Theosis and Muslim Evangelism: How the Recovery of a Patristic Understanding of Salvation Can Aid Evangelical Missionaries in the Evangelization of Islamic Peoples"

    Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia

    "Irenaeus is considered to be the first to clearly express a recapitulation view of the atonement....For Irenaeus, the ultimate goal of Christ's work of solidarity with humankind is to make humankind divine. Of Jesus he says, he 'became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself'. This idea has been most influential in the Christian East, particularly within the Orthodox Church, having been taken on by many other Church Fathers, such as Ss. Athanasius, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, and Maximus the Confessor. This Eastern Orthodox theological development out of the recapitulation view of the atonement is called theosis ('deification')."

    SBC President!
     
    #16 Jerome, Aug 10, 2018
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What are the most commonly held views today?

    I know Christus Victor is the held by the majority of Christianity, and Penal Substitution by the majority of the Western church. There is Moral Influence. And contemporary takes on Anabaptist views (Ontological Substitution, Non-violent Atonement). And Substitution (probably 3rd?).
     
    #17 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I don't think I'm about to take my theology from Wikipedia, and if we are going to take it from the Church fathers, we shall not remain Protestants or Baptists very long. Irenaeus is the grandfather of Mariolatry, so if we're going to take his views on the atonement, why are we not going to worship Mary?
     
    #18 Martin Marprelate, Aug 10, 2018
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  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I like CV but I prefer Jesus Christ conquerer like they do in the Greek Orthodox rite.
    https://www.google.com/search?clien...31j46i131j0i10j46i10j46i13j33i160.LbvG2sWnyQI
     
    #19 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 10, 2018
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #20 JonC, Aug 10, 2018
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