Pope: Abolish Death Penalty

[church mouse guy]

Aug. 2, 2018

ROME — Pope Francis has declared the death penalty inadmissible in all cases “because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,” the Vatican announced on Thursday, in a shift in Roman Catholic teaching on the issue.

Francis, who has spoken out against capital punishment before — including in 2015 in an address to Congress — added the change to the Catechism of the Catholic Church — the compendium of Catholic beliefs.

The pontiff, who is the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion Catholics, said the church would work “with determination” for the abolition of capital punishment worldwide.

Pope Declares Death Penalty Inadmissible in All Cases

Pope Che is at it again. As far as I know, he never said a word when Iran bombed the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires and then a few years later a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires and then the government of Argentina became implicated in the murder of a special prosecutor in this matter on two or three years ago.

The idea that someone like Raul Castro, for example, does not deserve the death penalty for all of the murders of innocent people that he himself carried out or ordered other people to carry out is repulsive in the extreme. I don't believe that Pope Che has the power to absolve Raul Castro or anyone else.

 

[Yeshua1]

Aug. 2, 2018

ROME — Pope Francis has declared the death penalty inadmissible in all cases “because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,” the Vatican announced on Thursday, in a shift in Roman Catholic teaching on the issue.

Francis, who has spoken out against capital punishment before — including in 2015 in an address to Congress — added the change to the Catechism of the Catholic Church — the compendium of Catholic beliefs.

The pontiff, who is the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion Catholics, said the church would work “with determination” for the abolition of capital punishment worldwide.

Pope Declares Death Penalty Inadmissible in All Cases

Pope Che is at it again. As far as I know, he never said a word when Iran bombed the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires and then a few years later a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires and then the government of Argentina became implicated in the murder of a special prosecutor in this matter on two or three years ago.

The idea that someone like Raul Castro, for example, does not deserve the death penalty for all of the murders of innocent people that he himself carried out or ordered other people to carry out is repulsive in the extreme. I don't believe that Pope Che has the power to absolve Raul Castro or anyone else.

God Himself have to us captial punishment expressly for first degree Murder, so take His word on this over the pope!

 

[church mouse guy]

God Himself have to us captial punishment expressly for first degree Murder, so take His word on this over the pope!

This Pope is a Peronist, which is a type of socialist fascist modelled after Mussolini, a bonafide pervert like Daniel Ortega.

 

[JonC]

God Himself have to us captial punishment expressly for first degree Murder, so take His word on this over the pope!

We don't adhere to the biblical description of capital punishment (how many capital punishment cases have had two eye witness testimonies?).

 

[church mouse guy]

We don't adhere to the biblical description of capital punishment (how many capital punishment cases have had two eye witness testimonies?).

The Saudis crucified a man the other day. I wonder what Catholicism will do about that?

 

[Yeshua1]

We don't adhere to the biblical description of capital punishment (how many capital punishment cases have had two eye witness testimonies?).

We have something much better, called Dna evidence!

 

[JonC]

We have something much better, called Dna evidence!

It it better (as far as we know) in concluding guilt. But it is not what Scripture requires. Two eye-witness testimonies must be given. I don't believe this is solely for the issue of determining guilt.

 

[Yeshua1]

It it better (as far as we know) in concluding guilt. But it is not what Scripture requires. Two eye-witness testimonies must be given. I don't believe this is solely for the issue of determining guilt.

So the question is NOT is the death penaly still approved by God for certains sins, but are we determining who gets it the right fashion then?

 

[JonC]

So the question is NOT is the death penaly still approved by God for certains sins, but are we determining who gets it the right fashion then?

No. My question was why we introduced the existence of such a penalty in Scripture when we otherwise differ on the circumstances it can be imposed. Strictly speaking, yes, capital punishment existed in the Bible. But the grounds where it was to be exercised was different than how it is used today so there is no biblical warrant (we can't take one part and ignore the rest). I'm neither for nor against the death penalty in general. If it is to be done then I say it should be done within the context provided by Scripture or it is murder.

 

[church mouse guy]

The law calling for the death penalty for murder was given to Noah, not Moses, so I am not sure that two witnesses are required.

The Pope is an extreme leftist, a Peronist who never spoke against the leftist bloodbath in his native Argentina. As far as I know this Pope never spoke against the murder of Jews in Buenos Aires when Iran bombed the Israeli Embassy and a couple of years later a Jewish community center.

 

[Yeshua1]

No. My question was why we introduced the existence of such a penalty in Scripture when we otherwise differ on the circumstances it can be imposed. Strictly speaking, yes, capital punishment existed in the Bible. But the grounds where it was to be exercised was different than how it is used today so there is no biblical warrant (we can't take one part and ignore the rest). I'm neither for nor against the death penalty in general. If it is to be done then I say it should be done within the context provided by Scripture or it is murder.

I think the mian poiont of application would be when there is no doubt that the party has commited murder premediatated, then God requires their own life.

 

[Jerome]

The Gospel Coalition's Aaron Menikoff remembers the wise counsel of Senator Mark Hatfield of Oregon and Capitol Hill Baptist Church:

Personal Memories of Senator Mark O. Hatfield (1922-2011)

"After two weeks in DC I found a church, Capitol Hill....Mark Dever was the new pastor....I soon discovered that the Senator and his wife were members....Hatfield was a strong believer...he was convinced that evangelicals too often used Christian arguments to dogmatically support positions over which Christians could, in good conscience differ."

Oregon May Vote on Ending Death Penalty

"Kitzhaber and Hatfield, two of Oregon's most popular political figures, have lent their names to an effort to ask voters to outlaw capital punishment in November."

"Hatfield, who has opposed the death penalty throughout his political career, believes it is time for Oregon to revisit the issue, especially in light of questions that have been raised about capital punishment in other states."

 

[Jerome]

Karen Swallow-Prior of the SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission on being Consistently Pro-Life:

thegospelcoalition.org/article/karen-swallow-prior-on-how-christians-can-become-more-consistently-pro-life/

christianitytoday.com/amyjuliabecker/2011/november/why-i-am-pro-life-by-karen-swallow-prior.html

I believe that the principles of Christian belief inherently lead to a pro-life ethic....
my opposition to capital punishment...is rooted in Christian mercy

 

[church mouse guy]

What do you do with Genesis 9:6?

It is time to abolish ERLC forever. However, it may be too late if the SBC is already lost to liberals like Greear.

 

[Jerome]

God Himself have to us captial punishment

I think the mian poiont of application would be when there is no doubt that the party has commited murder premediatated

Well said!

 

[JonC]

I think the mian poiont of application would be when there is no doubt that the party has commited murder premediatated, then God requires their own life.

The problem with that is Scripture doesn't base the penalty on our certainty of guilt. It bases (based) it on the crime and two people bearing witness. I do not believe we have the room to alter this (there is a difference between human certainty and two people bearing witness....and assuming the consequences if their account proves false).

 

[church mouse guy]

The problem with that is Scripture doesn't base the penalty on our certainty of guilt. It bases (based) it on the crime and two people bearing witness. I do not believe we have the room to alter this (there is a difference between human certainty and two people bearing witness....and assuming the consequences if their account proves false).

Again, the law was given to Noah long before Moses so is Mosaic Law retroactive to the Law given to Noah? Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Actually, I think that the paucity of executions that we have in this country and the number of years that an inmate spends on death row evidences that we have stringent laws for conviction and execution but I am not an attorney. I do agree that DNA evidence is ironclad. For example, if OJ cut himself while killing his ex and her new boyfriend, then his blood at the scene of the crime would require some explaining, wouldn't it? Even more so if the victims' blood were on his own body or clothing. Of course, OJ was found innocent and the culprit was never found or convicted, huh?

 

[JonC]

Again, the law was given to Noah long before Moses so is Mosaic Law retroactive to the Law given to Noah? Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Actually, I think that the paucity of executions that we have in this country and the number of years that an inmate spends on death row evidences that we have stringent laws for conviction and execution but I am not an attorney. I do agree that DNA evidence is ironclad. For example, if OJ cut himself while killing his ex and her new boyfriend, then his blood at the scene of the crime would require some explaining, wouldn't it? Even more so if the victims' blood were on his own body or clothing. Of course, OJ was found innocent and the culprit was never found or convicted, huh?

My opinion would be capital punishment for even more offenses (e.g., rape, molestation, torture). But from a biblical standpoint the criteria of witnesses is, I believe, important (and my opinion not relevant).

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, the law was given to Noah long before Moses so is Mosaic Law retroactive to the Law given to Noah? Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Actually, I think that the paucity of executions that we have in this country and the number of years that an inmate spends on death row evidences that we have stringent laws for conviction and execution but I am not an attorney. I do agree that DNA evidence is ironclad. For example, if OJ cut himself while killing his ex and her new boyfriend, then his blood at the scene of the crime would require some explaining, wouldn't it? Even more so if the victims' blood were on his own body or clothing. Of course, OJ was found innocent and the culprit was never found or convicted, huh?

Again, the point God is establishing is that premediatated murder warrents capital punishment, and the evidence against that party is to be Iron clad!

 

[Yeshua1]

My opinion would be capital punishment for even more offenses (e.g., rape, molestation, torture). But from a biblical standpoint the criteria of witnesses is, I believe, important (and my opinion not relevant).

Yes, bu tthe 203 witnesses was given in order to have the guilty party not just be charged on a whim, to get even, because somehated disliked them, main point was to have irrfutable evidence against the person.