Pope: Abolish Death Penalty

[utilyan]

This Is basic stuff as commanded by Jesus:

Luke 6

27“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29“Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30“Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31“Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34“If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38“Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure—pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”

 

[church mouse guy]

So should we abolish the police departments and prisons?

 

[Alcott]

""Do not resist an evil person." Man, who all is gonna burn forever for not heading this?... The police, most parents, mental health care workers, teachers, principals, ...

 

[utilyan]

I would get furious if anyone took my cheeseburger I was about to eat. Here he says I should offer the person a drink too.

If your neighbor walked in and said "I'm taking the TV", you answered "here let me help you with the cable box!"

That TV and Computer is the baby.

Are we against the fact God let his son die, he should have sent the legion of angels instead?

We got a problem with material things, But that was his son.

Jesus is on a different level of maturity that is beyond are ego and selfishness.

Maybe the church has to crawl before it can walk, I'm telling you the direction of mercy and being against capital punishment is the right way.

 

[church mouse guy]

I would get furious if anyone took my cheeseburger I was about to eat. Here he says I should offer the person a drink too.

If your neighbor walked in and said "I'm taking the TV", you answered "here let me help you with the cable box!"

That TV and Computer is the baby.

Are we against the fact God let his son die, he should have sent the legion of angels instead?

We got a problem with material things, But that was his son.

Jesus is on a different level of maturity that is beyond are ego and selfishness.

Maybe the church has to crawl before it can walk, I'm telling you the direction of mercy and being against capital punishment is the right way.

Got Scripture to back up the repeal of the death penalty by Catholicism or is this just more custom and tradition, especially from a notoriously left-wing papacy?

 

[utilyan]

Got Scripture to back up the repeal of the death penalty by Catholicism or is this just more custom and tradition, especially from a notoriously left-wing papacy?

Romans 12

14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. 17Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. 18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord. 20“BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD.” 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]


5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”


38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Jesus literally tells you its not eye for an eye.

Liberalism would be going with your gut.

Conservative would actually back up research.

Death penalty does not work. Crime is still here and worst then before.

Authority has its God given right but still accountable to God how that right is exercised.

John 19

10So Pilate said to Him, “You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?” 11Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”



In the simplest form treat those the way you want to be treated.

Now try to find scripture that repeals slavery.

 

[church mouse guy]

None of this that you cite, utilyan, says that government should not execute murderers. Since man is made in the image of God, then the murder attacks the image of God when he murders a human being. We already have a crime wave of murder in the USA, although it is nothing like the socialist countries such as Venezuela, and it is only going to grow worse as Muslims become stronger and stronger in the West because they do not share any restrictions against murder and it extend it to honor killings and same-sex practices. The papacy is in a bad place geographically because Italy is full of refugees caused by Obama's unnecessary attack of Libya and they are very hostile to the papacy.

 

[utilyan]

None of this that you cite, utilyan, says that government should not execute murderers. Since man is made in the image of God, then the murder attacks the image of God when he murders a human being. We already have a crime wave of murder in the USA, although it is nothing like the socialist countries such as Venezuela, and it is only going to grow worse as Muslims become stronger and stronger in the West because they do not share any restrictions against murder and it extend it to honor killings and same-sex practices. The papacy is in a bad place geographically because Italy is full of refugees caused by Obama's unnecessary attack of Libya and they are very hostile to the papacy.

It doesn't say Governments should not mass murder innocent or enslave people either.

As Jesus stated they are held accountable by God regardless.


Religious affiliation of inmates in U.S. prisons, 2011 | Statistic

The likely hood of getting killed by Muslim for religious reason pretty slim.

If there be any religion that factors into murder its the religion of money.


Should google
Innocent Death Row Inmates That Were Executed

That's one less thing I will have to answer to God for.


Good rule of thumb. If God needs anyone to die they will drop dead on the spot.

 

[church mouse guy]

It doesn't say Governments should not mass murder innocent or enslave people either.

As Jesus stated they are held accountable by God regardless.


Religious affiliation of inmates in U.S. prisons, 2011 | Statistic

The likely hood of getting killed by Muslim for religious reason pretty slim.

If there be any religion that factors into murder its the religion of money.


Should google
Innocent Death Row Inmates That Were Executed

That's one less thing I will have to answer to God for.


Good rule of thumb. If God needs anyone to die they will drop dead on the spot.

I guess that you are not counting the Christian holocaust of the world these last couple of decades. Pope Francis is a follower of Liberation Theology, an adaptation of communism that permeates the Catholic Church in South America. In Argentina, he was aligned with the Peron faction, a socialist state control society that repressed the people of Argentina for the last 80 years or so. Argentina suffered two terrorist attacks from the Iranians against Jews in Argentina, the largest Muslim attacks before Nine Eleven. The first was against the Israeli Embassy and a couple of years later the second was against a Jewish center in Buenos Aires. Embarrassed internationally for not prosecuting the attacks, a Jewish prosecutor was appointed but then murdered a couple of years ago when he had information tying the Peron presidents to Iran, some of whom were paid off in cash because Argentina wanted to buy oil. As far as I know, Pope Francis has never spoken against these murders because of his political affiliation with the socialists in Argentina and South America. He reinstated a couple of priests who were sidelined by John Paul II, who tried to diminish communist influence inside Catholicism.

Then Pope Francis embraced the ALBA, Alianza Bolivariana para los Pueblos de Nuestra América, that included Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, and Nicaragua. He smiled on mass-murder Fidel Castro and never criticized mass-murder Raul Castro. He accepted a cross and communist hammer and sickle icon from the dictator of Bolivia, Evo Morales, a former drug grower. He also approved of Chavez and his murdering successor Maduro. He has not said a word against Ortega, a child molester, who is now openly murdering protestors and has attacked the Catholic clergy in Nicaragua. In short, this Pope is called Papa Che, as you know, for his total leftist leanings. It is the Odessa File all over again.

So after God destroyed all people and animals with the worldwide Genesis Flood except Noah and his wife and his three sons and their wives and the animals that were on the Ark, and Jesus is the Ark, then God gave Noah a command to execute murderers and you have failed to show us where that command was specifically overturned anywhere in Scripture. So what is this bad Pope think that he can do?

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

 

[utilyan]

I guess that you are not counting the Christian holocaust of the world these last couple of decades. Pope Francis is a follower of Liberation Theology, an adaptation of communism that permeates the Catholic Church in South America. In Argentina, he was aligned with the Peron faction, a socialist state control society that repressed the people of Argentina for the last 80 years or so. Argentina suffered two terrorist attacks from the Iranians against Jews in Argentina, the largest Muslim attacks before Nine Eleven. The first was against the Israeli Embassy and a couple of years later the second was against a Jewish center in Buenos Aires. Embarrassed internationally for not prosecuting the attacks, a Jewish prosecutor was appointed but then murdered a couple of years ago when he had information tying the Peron presidents to Iran, some of whom were paid off in cash because Argentina wanted to buy oil. As far as I know, Pope Francis has never spoken against these murders because of his political affiliation with the socialists in Argentina and South America. He reinstated a couple of priests who were sidelined by John Paul II, who tried to diminish communist influence inside Catholicism.

Then Pope Francis embraced the ALBA, Alianza Bolivariana para los Pueblos de Nuestra América, that included Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, and Nicaragua. He smiled on mass-murder Fidel Castro and never criticized mass-murder Raul Castro. He accepted a cross and communist hammer and sickle icon from the dictator of Bolivia, Evo Morales, a former drug grower. He also approved of Chavez and his murdering successor Maduro. He has not said a word against Ortega, a child molester, who is now openly murdering protestors and has attacked the Catholic clergy in Nicaragua. In short, this Pope is called Papa Che, as you know, for his total leftist leanings. It is the Odessa File all over again.

So after God destroyed all people and animals with the worldwide Genesis Flood except Noah and his wife and his three sons and their wives and the animals that were on the Ark, and Jesus is the Ark, then God gave Noah a command to execute murderers and you have failed to show us where that command was specifically overturned anywhere in Scripture. So what is this bad Pope think that he can do?

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

So the Pope that is against death penalty loves killing everyone too.

Please make up your mind and put up sources for your accusations.

A real conservative puts up sources.

I showed you a direct command in the LAW for capital punishment and Jesus overturned it. Tell me Jesus was in the wrong for not following through the LAW.

The ENTIRE POINT of that passage obvious? You tell me the point:

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]


What is the point Jesus is showing here.

5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must surely be put to death.

That is a DIRECT command from God. God's voice SPOKE and SAID it.^

Deuteronomy 22:22
If a man is found lying with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

 

[church mouse guy]

You are citing passages about adultery but Noah after the Genesis flood was given the command Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

What part of the history of South America do you question? All of it is public record.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you are saying if it was murder Jesus would have stoned her? Say this then.

No, was saying that the Captial Crime God gave to us for all time was First degree murder....

 

[Yeshua1]

So the Pope that is against death penalty loves killing everyone too.

Please make up your mind and put up sources for your accusations.

A real conservative puts up sources.

I showed you a direct command in the LAW for capital punishment and Jesus overturned it. Tell me Jesus was in the wrong for not following through the LAW.

The ENTIRE POINT of that passage obvious? You tell me the point:

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]


What is the point Jesus is showing here.

5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must surely be put to death.

That is a DIRECT command from God. God's voice SPOKE and SAID it.^

Deuteronomy 22:22
If a man is found lying with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

God can show mercy to the murderer, even by saving them, but His Holiness would demand blood to be shed for lurdering another made in His own image.

 

[utilyan]

God can show mercy to the murderer, even by saving them, but His Holiness would demand blood to be shed for lurdering another made in His own image.

Well I believe God forgives sins. Some folks assume propitiation to be the pagan belief of torturing innocent to satisfy sadistic pleasure.

Matthew 9

13“But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

[utilyan]

No, was saying that the Captial Crime God gave to us for all time was First degree murder....

You said "NO"

Jesus would not stone a person for murder. I'm with Jesus.

 

[Alcott]

That's one less thing I will have to answer to God for.

I'm sure your equation balances out somewhere else, then.

Good rule of thumb. If God needs anyone to die they will drop dead on the spot.

Then why didn't a king named Agag do so? Because of his name? Saul lost his kingly legacy because of his failure to execute the guy, and the true "man of God" came along to do the job himself and to tell him so.

 

[church mouse guy]

Actually, in the case of the woman about to be stoned, she did not have any accusers so the death penalty was not waived in her case, but she was released for lack of charges being pressed. At any rate, Jesus did not abolish the Law given to Noah about capital punishment at this point or anywhere else. According to the Chicago Tribune, the Roman Catholic Church is not discussing what Scripture teaches but is saying that Francis had amended the Catechism of the Catholic Church — the compilation of official Catholic teaching — to say that capital punishment can never be sanctioned because it constitutes an "attack" on the dignity of human beings.

So it is clear that this was not done for Biblical reasons but for something about how the murderer retains his dignity no matter what he does in his murder. How this relates in anyway to what God said to Noah after the Genesis Flood, which ended the worst murder rampage in human history is beyond human logic.

What Catholicism is doing is removing dignity from the murdered and bestowing it upon the murderer, saying that God was wrong 4300 years ago and Pope Francis is right now. Liberation Theology and this new ruling by Catholicism explains why Pope Francis was all smiles around Fidel Castro and other Latin American thugs, including Kristina Kirshner, former president of Argentina who is thought to have ordered the assignation of Jewish special prosecutor Alberto Nisman in 2015 in exchange for a bribe from the Iranians to cover up their car bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992 killing 29 and wounding 242 and then the bombing of Argentine Israelite Mutual Association by Iran in 1994 killing 85 and injuring hundreds, also in Buenos Aires.

Pope Francis does not have any Biblical evidence offered in his justification for abolishing the death penalty. As a Peronist, he must think that the Italians were wrong to use capital punishment on Mussolini.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

 

[utilyan]

Actually, in the case of the woman about to be stoned, she did not have any accusers so the death penalty was not waived in her case, but she was released for lack of charges being pressed. At any rate, Jesus did not abolish the Law given to Noah about capital punishment at this point or anywhere else. According to the Chicago Tribune, the Roman Catholic Church is not discussing what Scripture teaches but is saying that Francis had amended the Catechism of the Catholic Church — the compilation of official Catholic teaching — to say that capital punishment can never be sanctioned because it constitutes an "attack" on the dignity of human beings.

So it is clear that this was not done for Biblical reasons but for something about how the murderer retains his dignity no matter what he does in his murder. How this relates in anyway to what God said to Noah after the Genesis Flood, which ended the worst murder rampage in human history is beyond human logic.

What Catholicism is doing is removing dignity from the murdered and bestowing it upon the murderer, saying that God was wrong 4300 years ago and Pope Francis is right now. Liberation Theology and this new ruling by Catholicism explains why Pope Francis was all smiles around Fidel Castro and other Latin American thugs, including Kristina Kirshner, former president of Argentina who is thought to have ordered the assignation of Jewish special prosecutor Alberto Nisman in 2015 in exchange for a bribe from the Iranians to cover up their car bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992 killing 29 and wounding 242 and then the bombing of Argentine Israelite Mutual Association by Iran in 1994 killing 85 and injuring hundreds, also in Buenos Aires.

Pope Francis does not have any Biblical evidence offered in his justification for abolishing the death penalty. As a Peronist, he must think that the Italians were wrong to use capital punishment on Mussolini.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Scripture says she was caught in the act. As a matter of fact she is an adulterer.

According to your logic well if no one presses charges on a murderer well then that is okay since capital punishment has not been waived.

Here is a simple question, What Jesus did was right or wrong? Cause if Jesus wasn't around what would you have said? If the charge was murder you think Jesus would have stoned her?

The outlook of Jesus is that it is NO LONGER an eye for an eye.

Matthew 5

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.


Lets turn the tables here and expand the "what you have heard" vs what Jesus says:


Matthew 5

21“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Have you ever been angry? --> Guilty of MURDER. Lets see capital punishment for every time someone gets angry.

Called anyone good for nothing?

Called anyone a fool?

Jesus is not giving an "and also" There is an old way and then his way.

What Jesus is presenting here is very revolutionary that is non-aggression.

If someone trusted GOD->SINCERELY, Believes in God ->SINCERELY.
It doesn't matter what anyone does to them, they don't have to act combatively they already start with a win.

 

[church mouse guy]

The Vatican said that the new rule abolishing capital punishment had nothing to do with Scripture but dealt with the dignity of the murderer. The Pope is an adherent of Liberation Theology so there is no rhyme or reason other than politics to what he does. A Catholic country like Venezuela has so much murder that no one wants to live there.

If Jesus really did abolish Mosaic Law, that does not apply to this case since the Law given to Noah would have been about 4300 years ago and Moses lived about 1250 BC or roughly 3250 years ago.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well I believe God forgives sins. Some folks assume propitiation to be the pagan belief of torturing innocent to satisfy sadistic pleasure.

Matthew 9

13“But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

God forgives sins due to Jesus paying for them!