Noah got the law before Mosaic Law so I don't understand the relationship.
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Pope: Abolish Death Penalty
- Thread starter church mouse guy
- Start date
Noah got the law before Mosaic Law so I don't understand the relationship.
And an accountable witness.
Might as well abolish it, this is information on how long it takes... How long did it take in scripture to carry it out?... I would say not long... They didn't have lawyers and an appeals court... Brother Glen
According to the Bureau of Justice and Death Penalty Information Center, the average time from sentencing to execution, was just around 16 years. If no appeals are raised, that process can happen as soon as six months, but that rarely happens. Apr 10, 2017
According to the Bureau of Justice and Death Penalty Information Center, the average time from sentencing to execution, was just around 16 years. If no appeals are raised, that process can happen as soon as six months, but that rarely happens. Apr 10, 2017
Good point.Might as well abolish it, this is information on how long it takes... How long did it take in scripture to carry it out?... I would say not long... They didn't have lawyers and an appeals court... Brother Glen
According to the Bureau of Justice and Death Penalty Information Center, the average time from sentencing to execution, was just around 16 years. If no appeals are raised, that process can happen as soon as six months, but that rarely happens. Apr 10, 2017
And....in the Bible two or more put their lives out there as witnesses to the crime (not just evidence but the testimony of men).
Good point.
And....in the Bible two or more put their lives out there as witnesses to the crime (not just evidence but the testimony of men).
State legislatures have for decades refused to streamline the process so that it takes perhaps twenty years to execute someone, all the while the lawyers are collecting fees for filing papers and objections, most of the time all at taxpayer expense. This talk about 2 witnesses adds to the command to Noah as far as I know and I am waiting for someone to explain how Moses corrected the Law given to Noah?
In the case of the repentant murderer, I mean one who comes to Christ, all you death penalty proponents are basically wanting to do is send this person to eternal life in heaven in the presence of the Lord instead of letting them rot in a hellhole of a prison here on earth for the remainder of their natural lives. Have you ever thought about it that way?
Insofar as the "two or three witness" component, this is something that carried over into the church as well (it's not related only to capital punishment).
Regarding your question, Moses never corrected the law given to Noah. The Law was a covenant made between God and Israel, given through Moses, which didn't apply to Noah (Deut. 5 states it was a covenant between Israel given through Moses between God and that generation excluding their forefathers).
I do not believe we are under the Law, but instead live under a new covenant which demonstrates God's righteousness apart from the Law. So my issue with capital punishment is that to be biblical it either must be done in accord with how the bible presents capital punishment (to include witnesses) or it is perhaps not permitted at all under the covenant which we live.
See, that is what I am sincerely confused about because there is nothing in the Law given to Noah that concerns two witnesses that I see. Furthermore, I don't see where the Law given to Noah was ever rescinded. Murder is horrible for many reasons but one of them is that man is made in the image of God, and that includes the little babies that the USA murders daily. I know that Jesus has a rocking chair and those little babies are in Heaven with Jesus but why aren't the abortion doctors on death row?
No.
The earth was filled with violence before the Genesis Flood. At the Ark Encounter in Williamstown, one of Noah's daughters in law is portrayed sweeping near the Door of the Ark and she is very pensive about all of the people who perished in the Genesis Flood. How many do you think that it was? Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
As we move on from Noah to the Law, I guess you could say more is revealed (?). The issue of the witnesses bearing testimony is also a New Covenant requirement...if that helps.
Personally, I don't know if in principle capital punishment can be biblically supported. Paul, for example, would be considered by some a candidate for his active support (and even aid) in Stephen's death. He would be guilty for his participation under most courts (not a candidate for the death penalty but for imprisonment).
Biblically, the law given to Noah and the Law were given as a covenant to God's people. I guess Paul's words could apply-who are we to judge those outside the church?
I guess that I am not making myself clear. My question is did Moses correct the law given to Noah? Do you think the stoning of Stephen overturns the law given to Noah?
1. No. Moses did not correct the law given to Noah. Noah was not an Israelite (God gave the Law to Israel through Moses).
2. No. God's laws are given to people (sometimes to different people). They govern those under the law/Law. They are fulfilled but never overturned or corrected.
Do you believe God's instruction to Noah nullifies His Law given through Moses?
My point is that Christian's are under a "new covenant" and throughout God's institution to Christians regarding discipline and confronting sin there is a requirement of two or three witnesses. What instructions do we see about Christian's judging the world (except not to do it)?
So you would agree that the Captial punishment was given to Manking apart from the Mosaic law, and so is still binding to us, but has to meet the threshold in order to ahve it implemented?
As much as I would agree the sacrificial system Noah observed was given to mankind and is binding to us.
Wow. I apologize but when and where was it overthrown?
It never has been , as its a specific prohibition against killing mankind, made in very image of God!
John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]
Caught in the act and with the grounds for Capital punishment.
Should Jesus have thrown a rock instead?
Do you think it would have played out differently if she was a murderer?
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]
Caught in the act and with the grounds for Capital punishment.
Should Jesus have thrown a rock instead?
Do you think it would have played out differently if she was a murderer?
was her crime the one of murder, as that ws the one laid out by God for us!
So you are saying if it was murder Jesus would have stoned her? Say this then.
This is basic Christianity folks:
YOU heard its eye for an eye. But Christ says otherwise:
Matthew 5
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40“If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.42“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
YOU heard its eye for an eye. But Christ says otherwise:
Matthew 5
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40“If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.42“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.