The Other Gospel Of Tongues

[HopefulNChrist]

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit

There are NO past tenses in this passage, everything is present tense in the inspired koine Greek.

Drunk is past tense. That is the exhortation to avoid by remaining sober and thus in self control as remaining filled with that fruit of the Spirit. That does not mean that after a believer gets drunk, he needs to fill himself up with the Holy Spirit. Once he is sober, any believer will find God is keeping His promise that he is still Spirit filled and thus still saved.

That is what Matthew 9:17 is testifying towards about our salvation. God has done it; we are Spirit-filled; we can rest in Jesus Christ as saved. Any testimony contrary to that truth is a believer testifying that he is not a new wine bottle in being able to hold the new wine. Preaching to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is to deny Jesus Christ of His promise to us regarding our salvation that we would never hunger nor thirst to be filled after coming to & believing in Him to be saved; John 6:35

 

[HankD]

Drunk is past tense.

No it is not. In the inspired Greek text it is an imperative present passive verb.

 

[JonShaff]

No it is not. In the inspired Greek text it is an imperative present passive verb.

Yes, amen.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

No it is not. In the inspired Greek text it is an imperative present passive verb.

What I am referring to is that the call to be sober is not given to believers already drunk, but the call to believers presently to avoid reaching that state of drunkenness by which do not be drunk with wine is referring to a past tense state that the believer is to avoid; and so to avoid that past tense state of being drunk, the present call given is to remain sober as in remain filled with the Holy Spirit by not sowing to the works of the flesh which is drunkenness.

The believer is called presently not to drink wine in excess to avoid that future and yet past tense state of drunkenness and thereby remaining in self control which is a fruit of the Spirit called temperance.

To suggest that we lose an infilling of the Holy Spirit every time we sow to the works of the flesh or sin, would not go to the testimony of Jesus Christ as our Savior. We are not called to seek a continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, but rather to avoid sowing to the works of the flesh by sowing to the fruits of the Spirit.

Sowing to the fruits of the Spirit is not the same thing as seeking a continual filling of the Spirit since we are to be placing our confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us and NOT BY our work of seeking a constant filling of the Holy Ghost when such said infilling of the Spirit is a promise from God the Father at our salvation.

You still have to contend with Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35 for why you are applying His words wrong in Ephesians 5:18.

You do come off as saying you are a leaky vessel in need of a constant infilling of the Holy Spirit. A Spirit-filled believer is a testimony that he has been saved by Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel since he had first believed. Any other preaching to the contrary is … contrary.

 

[JonShaff]

We are not called to seek a continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, but rather to avoid sowing to the works of the flesh by sowing to the fruits of the Spirit.

John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke 11
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

As one ministers, he is pouring out and into the lives of those around him. He needs to be filled again. Christ was given the Spirit of God without Measure. We need to keep coming to the source, the fountainhead, to be filled so we can pour out.

 

[HankD]

What I am referring to is that the call to be sober is not given to believers already drunk, but the call to believers presently to avoid reaching that state of drunkenness by which do not be drunk with wine is referring to a past tense state that the believer is to avoid; and so to avoid that past tense state of being drunk, the present call given is to remain sober as in remain filled with the Holy Spirit by not sowing to the works of the flesh which is drunkenness.

The believer is called presently not to drink wine in excess to avoid that future and yet past tense state of drunkenness and thereby remaining in self control which is a fruit of the Spirit called temperance.

To suggest that we lose an infilling of the Holy Spirit every time we sow to the works of the flesh or sin, would not go to the testimony of Jesus Christ as our Savior. We are not called to seek a continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, but rather to avoid sowing to the works of the flesh by sowing to the fruits of the Spirit.

Sowing to the fruits of the Spirit is not the same thing as seeking a continual filling of the Spirit since we are to be placing our confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us and NOT BY our work of seeking a constant filling of the Holy Ghost when such said infilling of the Spirit is a promise from God the Father at our salvation.

You still have to contend with Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35 for why you are applying His words wrong in Ephesians 5:18.

You do come off as saying you are a leaky vessel in need of a constant infilling of the Holy Spirit. A Spirit-filled believer is a testimony that he has been saved by Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel since he had first believed. Any other preaching to the contrary is … contrary.

Look as I explained with the other passages, Being "filled" with the Spirit is related to being under His influence and control as opposed to being under the influence or control of too much wine (present tense)in a comparative sense.

This is not a passage that primarily should be used concerning the question of alcohol use.

Paul is using the wine as a comparison. Filled with wine leads to "being under the influence" of the alcohol in the wine. So yes - to not get drunk could be an application here. The main argument is control, influence.

When we either quench or grieve the Spirit His influence in our lives is diminished - in that respect we are not "filled" with the Spirit but we are "filled" with self.

There is another aspect of spirituality and that is our relationship to the word of God. It is our spiritual food and drink and our growth when it is consumed.

Hebrews 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

…

Scripture is left out of your quote to be read better.

John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This was the promise of the Spirit from the Father regarding our salvation for all those that come to Him after Jesus has ascended to the Father in Heaven by which He was glorified. and not just after His resurrection.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

The point of verse 13 in context is that once you had received the Holy Spirit the first time, you will never ask for Him again unless that makes the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit the first time as promised for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

As one ministers, he is pouring out and into the lives of those around him. He needs to be filled again. Christ was given the Spirit of God without Measure. We need to keep coming to the source, the fountainhead, to be filled so we can pour out.

When originally the receiving of the Holy Spirit was given by promise at our salvation, then to seek on receiving Him in order to minister, makes us poor vessels unable to hold the Holy Spirit and that does not go to the glory of Jesus Christ in making us a new creature able to hold the Holy Spirit like new wine bottles able to hold the wine.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Look as I explained with the other passages, Being "filled" with the Spirit is related to being under His influence and control as opposed to being under the influence or control of too much wine (present tense)in a comparative sense.

This is not a passage that primarily should be used concerning the question of alcohol use.

Paul is using the wine as a comparison. Filled with wine leads to "being under the influence" of the alcohol in the wine. So yes - to not get drunk could be an application here. The main argument is control, influence.

When we either quench or grieve the Spirit His influence in our lives is diminished - in that respect we are not "filled" with the Spirit but we are "filled" with self.

There is another aspect of spirituality and that is our relationship to the word of God. It is our spiritual food and drink and our growth when it is consumed.

Hebrews 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I believe you are preaching the same methodology as those who preach to receive the Holy Spirit after a sign. Scripture reproves how you are applying Ephesians 5:18 to mean, but you seem to be glossing over them as if they meant nothing.

We are always Spirit-filled because we are in this fallible flesh still and that makes us accountable by what we sow towards.

If we were not always Spirit-filled, we would not be accountable to what we sow towards because we were not Spirit-filled all the time.

There are other verses calling believers to be sober and it does not involve a seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit.

Like it or not, what you preach is the same methodology that slain in the spirit and holy laughter movement encounters by; receiving an infilling of the Holy Spirit. Therefore that "tree" you are preaching is not of the Lord at all, bearing evil fruits.

By not getting drunk by wine, you are remaining filled with the Holy Spirit in respect to the fruit of the Spirit; temperance which is self control which opposes drunkenness which is a work of the flesh. If you avoid getting drunk by wine, you are in self control as in filled with the Holy Spirit. You do not oppose a work of the flesh in that verse unless referring to the fruit of the Spirit called temperance in maintaining sobriety. This has nothing about seeking to be controlled by the Holy Spirit but remaining sober; keeping the fruit of the spirit called temperance.

By avoiding drunkenness, you are Spirit-filled.

 

[HankD]

I believe you are preaching the same methodology as those who preach to receive the Holy Spirit after a sign. Scripture reproves how you are applying Ephesians 5:18 to mean, but you seem to be glossing over them as if they meant nothing.

We are always Spirit-filled because we are in this fallible flesh still and that makes us accountable by what we sow towards.

If we were not always Spirit-filled, we would not be accountable to what we sow towards because we were not Spirit-filled all the time.

There are other verses calling believers to be sober and it does not involve a seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit.

Like it or not, what you preach is the same methodology that slain in the spirit and holy laughter movement encounters by; receiving an infilling of the Holy Spirit. Therefore that "tree" you are preaching is not of the Lord at all, bearing evil fruits.

By not getting drunk by wine, you are remaining filled with the Holy Spirit in respect to the fruit of the Spirit; temperance which is self control which opposes drunkenness which is a work of the flesh. If you avoid getting drunk by wine, you are in self control as in filled with the Holy Spirit. You do not oppose a work of the flesh in that verse unless referring to the fruit of the Spirit called temperance in maintaining sobriety. This has nothing about seeking to be controlled by the Holy Spirit but remaining sober; keeping the fruit of the spirit called temperance.

By avoiding drunkenness, you are Spirit-filled.

Forget it.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Forget it.

Perhaps if you would plainly state how this is done in achieving this continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, you would not come off as seemingly preaching that same methodology that "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" comes by.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,...…….

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; @JonShaff & @HankD

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Having been sealed with the holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance whereby the church which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all,

We are always Spirit-filled so we can always testify that we have been saved by Jesus Christ since we had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel. That is why we do not hunger nor thirst any more to be filled as promised after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So the emphasis is not on seeking to be infilled of the Holy Spirit, but because we are Spirit-filled, we are NOT to sow to the works of the flesh like drunkenness, but sow to the fruits of the Spirit of temperance which is self control by remaining sober.

That is "how" you remain under the influence of the Holy Spirit; not by seeking an infilling of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, believers would think they can get drunk by wine and then come home, ask to be infilled by the Holy Spirit to become sober, and we know that is not happening and so you are applying Ephesians 5:18 in the wrong way, but I recognize that only God can cause the increase. I have said a prayer for both you & JonShaff

 

[JonShaff]

Perhaps if you would plainly state how this is done in achieving this continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, you would not come off as seemingly preaching that same methodology that "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" comes by.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,...…….

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; @JonShaff & @HankD

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Having been sealed with the holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance whereby the church which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all,

We are always Spirit-filled so we can always testify that we have been saved by Jesus Christ since we had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel. That is why we do not hunger nor thirst any more to be filled as promised after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So the emphasis is not on seeking to be infilled of the Holy Spirit, but because we are Spirit-filled, we are NOT to sow to the works of the flesh like drunkenness, but sow to the fruits of the Spirit of temperance which is self control by remaining sober.

That is "how" you remain under the influence of the Holy Spirit; not by seeking an infilling of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, believers would think they can get drunk by wine and then come home, ask to be infilled by the Holy Spirit to become sober, and we know that is not happening and so you are applying Ephesians 5:18 in the wrong way, but I recognize that only God can cause the increase. I have said a prayer for both you & JonShaff

Thank you for your prayers!

I'll hopefully make this simple for your.

Peter and John, already "Filled with the Spirit" come to a company of the brethren after getting reprimanded by the religious leaders and begin to pray.

Acts 4
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

Now what happens?

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness

Say what?!

They spent time with Lord in prayers and supplication and they were "Filled" *again* with the Spirit of God??!!

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Thank you for your prayers!

I'll hopefully make this simple for your.

Peter and John, already "Filled with the Spirit" come to a company of the brethren after getting reprimanded by the religious leaders and begin to pray.

That is a term usually applied out of context for what that term is to testify towards. So let's look at it with discernment from Him.

Acts 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

The phrase was referenced for the readers' sake of knowing how Peter was answering that question put to them. It was not written that Peter sought an infilling of the Holy Ghost after having been asked that question in order to answer that question.

Jesus said this;

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now if they are to take no thought to how to speak to those questioning us, then there is no "time out" moment to seek an infilling of the Holy Spirit for them to be filled with the Spirit to answer that question as it was by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ as by His authority for how Peter was speaking.

You quoted this reference as I am leaving it out of your quoted reply so we can read this better in the post..

Acts 4
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

Now what happens?

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness

Say what?!

They spent time with Lord in prayers and supplication and they were "Filled" *again* with the Spirit of God??!!

In context, of that whole chapter.. from the onset, there were potential new believers .. about 5,000 before Peter & John got arrested. When they got released, they went into their "own" company as this company were the prospective 5,000 new believers. When this company heard what Peter & John went through, they too prayed that they would speak in the same boldness as Peter and John had done and that was when the new company of believers were filled with the Holy Ghost at their salvation. We can know it was a salvation moment to this new company because afterwards, it was written how they sold everything and laid it at the apostles' feet as a turning point in their lives as that new community of saved believers in Christ.

Peter & John were not filled again with the Holy Ghost when it was the new company of believers praying that they would speak as Peter & John had spoken. That was the moment that these potential 5,000 believers had gotten saved.

There are other verses testifying to the discipled filled with the Holy Ghost in the Book of Acts but again, it is for the reader sake explaining not only how they were speaking but how they were doing the things they were doing in the mission field, because it was not something they just decide to do or to say or even to rejoice when rejected by a community. It is by the power of the Spirit of God is how His disciples were serving Him in missionary outreach in the Book of Acts.

Scripture cannot go against scripture; there is no more continual infilling of the Holy Spirit to be had in the life of a believer after his salvation moment so that as Spirit-filled always, he can testify that Jesus Christ has saved Him and thus is our Savior.

 

[JonShaff]

That is a term usually applied out of context for what that term is to testify towards. So let's look at it with discernment from Him.

Acts 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

The phrase was referenced for the readers' sake of knowing how Peter was answering that question put to them. It was not written that Peter sought an infilling of the Holy Ghost after having been asked that question in order to answer that question.

Jesus said this;

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now if they are to take no thought to how to speak to those questioning us, then there is no "time out" moment to seek an infilling of the Holy Spirit for them to be filled with the Spirit to answer that question as it was by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ as by His authority for how Peter was speaking.

You quoted this reference as I am leaving it out of your quoted reply so we can read this better in the post..

Acts 4
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”



31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness



In context, of that whole chapter.. from the onset, there were potential new believers .. about 5,000 before Peter & John got arrested. When they got released, they went into their "own" company as this company were the prospective 5,000 new believers. When this company heard what Peter & John went through, they too prayed that they would speak in the same boldness as Peter and John had done and that was when the new company of believers were filled with the Holy Ghost at their salvation. We can know it was a salvation moment to this new company because afterwards, it was written how they sold everything and laid it at the apostles' feet as a turning point in their lives as that new community of saved believers in Christ.

Peter & John were not filled again with the Holy Ghost when it was the new company of believers praying that they would speak as Peter & John had spoken. That was the moment that these potential 5,000 believers had gotten saved.

There are other verses testifying to the discipled filled with the Holy Ghost in the Book of Acts but again, it is for the reader sake explaining not only how they were speaking but how they were doing the things they were doing in the mission field, because it was not something they just decide to do or to say or even to rejoice when rejected by a community. It is by the power of the Spirit of God is how His disciples were serving Him in missionary outreach in the Book of Acts.

Scripture cannot go against scripture; there is no more continual infilling of the Holy Spirit to be had in the life of a believer after his salvation moment so that as Spirit-filled always, he can testify that Jesus Christ has saved Him and thus is our Savior.

You are trying to explain away the simple realities of what is going on in Acts.

Question, how is your prayer life, communion with God? Are you sharing the Gospel boldly, constantly? Explain how realities of the Power of God resting on your life.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

You are trying to explain away the simple realities of what is going on in Acts.

Did Peter & John reached a potential of new believers in Jesus Christ before they got arrested before any water baptism was done?

Isn't the prayer about wanting to preach as Peter & John had preached? That means Peter & John were not praying that prayer when it was about a new company of believers wanting to speak as they did.

After the spectacular event when these believers got saved, did you see what they did as a result? They sold everything and distribute it among that new community of believers from laying it at the apostles' feet. That means they were not doing that before because they only just became a new community of believers.

Question, how is your prayer life, communion with God? Are you sharing the Gospel boldly, constantly? Explain how realities of the Power of God resting on your life.

Better yet; do you believe the Holy Spirit uses tongues for uttering His own intercessions? If so, John 16:13 in ALL Bible versions says He cannot speak for Himself at all, let alone uttering any of His own intercessions out loud. Until recently of a new Bible version, only the KJV had the correct rendering of Romans 8:26 where even His groanings could not be uttered, hence no sound at all. Romans 8:27 exist to explain how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's for each and every believer He indwells is given to God the Father and that is by testifying to the One separate from us in searching our hearts and separate from the Spirit to know the mind of in giving the Spirit's silent intercessions to God the Father; and that "he" in verse 27 is the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace as the Word of God that searches our hearts in Hebrews 4:12-16

Look up all the versions of John 16:13 at this link;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 16:13&version=KJV;NIV;ESV;NASB;ASV

He will not speak of Himself KJV, He will not speak on His own NIV, He will not speak on His own initiative ESV, He will not speak on His own authority NASB, He will not speak from Himself ASV as they all agree that He can only speak what He hears.

So Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV is correct when it cites that even His groanings cannot be uttered, thus He makes silent intercessions for us and the Son knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's intercessions to the Father.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

That is why it is written as said by Jesus Christ that the father knows before we ask anything in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So if you believe tongues without interpretation are for private use, and thus you believe the Holy Spirit would turn around God's gift of tongues which is for ONLY speaking unto the people, ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) and use it for His own means to utter His intercessions, then know that you are identifying with that gospel of tongues which is another gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your reply was read as if opposing my belief that there is no more infilling of the Spirit in the life of a believer for which you had earlier replied as below.



And I seem to be reading the rest of your last reply as leading to that opposition.



If you are now trying to infer that change in the life of a believer is done by this continual infilling of the Spirit, then again, those scripture do not credit such a continual filling of the Holy Spirit to be towards that effect of change in the life of a believer..

AL:L saved have the same Holy Spirit, the same "amount", the real question is at any given point in time, how much of us as He?

 

[Yeshua1]

When the first half of the verse says "Do not be drunk with wine wherein there is excess" , it is referring to a past tense condition. Also, a side note,, in wine there is excess whereby one can get drunk by; that is not so with the Holy Spirit where the verses did not say there was excess to be had, but to remain filled with the Holy Spirit as opposed to getting drunk by that excess..

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;



But not the same meaning nor the same topic. Ephesians 5:18 is just a call to stay sober by not getting drunk. 1 Peter 2:2 talks about newborn babes having already been born whereby at that born again of the Spirit is the same as infilled by the Spirit.



I am not sure how there is an image of the Spirit of the Lord, nor any scripture to that testimony, but there are scripture for us to conform to the image of the Son, and that is not the same thing.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

There is a verse but it is not to how you are applying His words to mean.

2 Corinthians 3:But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

This image is being changed "by" the Spirit of the Lord" and not "to" the Spirit of the Lord, as the face we are to behold is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom since we are the bride of Christ seeking His return, even in worship.



Let us listen to His words as to where the fruits of the Spirit comes from and Whom it is that is being given the credit for those fruits of the Spirit as to Whom is working in our lives and in us.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth....20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

All power has been given specifically to the Son since His resurrection.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

That testifies to Whom is working in us and Whom the fruits of the Spirit are coming from.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That is a testimony about how the words of the Holy Spirit and the fruits of the Spirit are from Jesus Christ in such a way that the indwelling Holy Spirit gives the Son the full credit because that is how the Spirit glorifies the Son by.

Since the Holy Spirit seeks to glorify the Son, how can He do that except through us in worship as that is also a testimony given of Him in worship.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

So you need to listen to His words and redirect the spotlight from seeking to be infilled with the Holy Spirit to, instead, having received Christ Jesus at our salvation to walk in Him in order to grow in our reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ by learning of Him in His words. Growth is not done by seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit, but by trusting Jesus Christ to finish His work in us. That is what scripture is saying plainly.

To give an inch towards what you are trying to preach is the same thing as preaching another spirit and thus another gospel to receive; thus no different from what those that are in error are doing in "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" are doing which both are not of the Lord at all.

To seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is a false testimony as it bears the image of a wine bottle unable to hold the wine.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Are you listening to His words rather than just reading them? To preach a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is to preach that we are not new wine bottles able to contain the wine and thus not saved. We are always Spirit-filled as a testimony that we are saved since our salvation at the calling of the gospel of Jesus Christ when we had first believed and got saved that day.

The Apoostle paul commands us now as Christians to seek, urgently seek and be refilled on a continually basis with the Holy Spirit!

 

[HopefulNChrist]

AL:L saved have the same Holy Spirit, the same "amount", the real question is at any given point in time, how much of us as He?

All of Him. Just as all of Jesus Christ is in us all.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

The Apoostle paul commands us now as Christians to seek, urgently seek and be refilled on a continually basis with the Holy Spirit!

No scripture testify to a commandment from Paul to "urgently" , let alone "seek to refill themselves up with the Holy Ghost on a continually daily basis". Ephesians 5:18 call to remain sober by not getting drunk with wine is not testifying to that effect.

 

[JonShaff]

No scripture testify to a commandment from Paul to "urgently" , let alone "seek to refill themselves up with the Holy Ghost on a continually daily basis". Ephesians 5:18 call to remain sober by not getting drunk with wine is not testifying to that effect.

The Indwelling is permanent. His Presence and Power is continually refilled.

 

[Yeshua1]

I hope you will explain why you believe that there is no assurance of salvation to those left behind when there is.

Excommunication has been taught to the church to do for this purpose.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That is the warning given to the church at Thyatira if they do not repent; they will be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation, thus left behind in being castaways.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

I believe Jesus is referring to that other gospel of tongues where they preach seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues apart from salvation which is committing spiritual fornication for why that tongue is coming without interpretation and thus assumed to be used for private use, uttering the depths of Satan as they speak because that kind of supernatural tongue has been in the world before Pentecost for why that can never be the real God's gift of tongues.

Isaiah 8:1919 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Jesus died for all of the sins of His own saved persons, so none will be left behind whom H died for and purchased back by His own blood!