Understand God's Prayer System

[HopefulNChrist]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus has declared the will of the Father by how the Son is the only way any believer can approach God the Father by in prayer. ( BTW That also includes fellowship and worship FYI )

That means no believer can approach God the Father by the way of the Holy Spirit.

1 Timothy 2:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The reason Jesus is the only Mediator between God and men is because of how God answers prayers.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That means the Holy Spirit is not the One to pray to in coming to God the Father BECAUSE the Holy Spirit does not answer prayers; the Son does it so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

What part does the Holy Spirit has in prayers? He delivers from the Son, but gives the credit & glory to what He delivers to the Son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That includes the words of the Holy Spirit, the fruits of the Holy spirit, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit; they all come from the Son.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

That means all prayers to the Holy Spirit, Mary, and/or the departed saints are not being answered by them.

The Father is not glorified in them for answers to prayers; the father is glorified in the Son because He alone answers the prayers because all powers has been given unto Him in Heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth....20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

To understand God's prayer system is important so that you can discern how and why those believers in Pentecostalism and Charismaticism and Catholicism are astray when they get responses by their errant praying. God is not the one answering their prayers when credit & glory is being given to them.

That is why these workers of iniquity will be denied when they claim wonderful works in His name, but they used another name as in another Person for which they are making these claims by, because they broadened the way in coming to God the Father by.

For some Baptists, you know that when they pray to the Holy Ghost to come and fall on them in "slain in the spirit" phenomena and in the holy laughter movement, that is not the Holy Spirit answering their prayers.

When the virgin Mary manifests, you know that is not the virgin Mary appearing.

Miracles can be claimed, but misleading, because signs and lying wonders is the trademark of the deceivers.

How does one protect themselves from being misled by spirits? Heed His words; narrow the way to the straight gate to avoid falling to those spirits. Narrow the focus to the Son in prayer, worship, and fellowship.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.....24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

That includes the iniquity that Baptists are involved in when seeking the Presence of the Holy Spirit in the worship place while holding communion service, so do stop doing that and focus on the Son in worship.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

 

[HankD]

Yes of course Jesus is our focus of prayer however the Spirit assists us in pray:

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

For the most part HNC you are preaching to the choir.

All the Baptists churches I have attended do not put the charismatic emphasis on the Holy Spirit as per your several posts.

For some Baptists, you know that when they pray to the Holy Ghost to come and fall on them in "slain in the spirit" phenomena and in the holy laughter movement, that is not the Holy Spirit answering their prayers.

Since you accuse what is your hard evidence?

Of which Baptists if any here at the BB do you speak?

Have you actually attended Baptists Churches who have done as you say above?

FWIW I have seen one Baptist Church (ROKU) presentation which gave indication of being charismatic short of speaking in tongues so to that extent I agree.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Yes of course Jesus is our focus of prayer however the Spirit assists us in pray:

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Don't forget Romans 8:27 to get the full testimony on how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's is given to God the Father.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

So that "he" is Jesus that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 as the same "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit which is in according to the will of God being Jesus the only Mediator between God and men. By Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit from that throne of grace is how the silent intercessions of the Spirit is given to the Father.

That truth along with John 16:13 also helps in discerning that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for prayer so believers can discern the spirit that brings tongues that does not come with interpretation to not assume it is a prayer language, because that spirit that has come over the believer later on in life apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel is NOT the Holy Spirit

For the most part HNC you are preaching to the choir.

All the Baptists churches I have attended do not put the charismatic emphasis on the Holy Spirit as per your several posts.

Believing that the presence that Baptist feel in the worship place to be the Holy Ghost is why Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Catholics can join in. They too feel that presence even without the elaborate confusion, but it is still not the Holy Ghost.

Since you accuse what is your hard evidence?

Of which Baptists if any here at the BB do you speak?

@Reynolds has testified as if there is nothing wrong with slain in the spirit in another thread in response to @JonShaff citing slain in the spirit is not of Him … and which I had replied as well.

Do Baptists Seek Presence of Holy Spirit in Worship?

Slain in the spirit is unbiblical. I'm not even sure what holy laughter is.

Why? It may be extra Biblical, but I do not see un-Biblical.

That answers that question.​

Have you actually attended Baptists Churches who have done as you say above?

Two in the valley; one had pushed commitment to follow Christ as if that is the power believers need to make and keep in how to follow Him.

The other one pushed tithes and having few on staff, would not stop to cleaning the restroom.

But I did not stick around long enough to find out if they were, however... in that same other thread already provided by that link in his post... alarms are ringing.

This link provided by @Jerome in post #2 of that thread was where I got the other quotes from that sounds like Charismatics & Pentecostals & Catholics.

2nd VIEW: Pastors' prayer meeting called Spirit-infused 'epic moment'

-- Chris Robeson (@chrisrobeson), senior pastor of Friendly Baptist Church in Tyler, Texas: "God was in the room and strengthening hearts of pastors to press forward and go all in for His glory!"

-- Kevin Ward (@SalemBroKevin), pastor of Salem Springs Baptist Church in Athens, Ala.: "Let us not get over quickly meeting with God. May He stay fresh in our hearts each and every day."

Michael Catt (@MichaelCatt), senior pastor of Sherwood Baptist Church in Albany, Ga., said afterward he felt encouraged, hungry for more of God, and a longing for others to feel the same.

"NOW praying for a MOMENT to be a MOVEMENT!" Catt wrote

FWIW I have seen one Baptist Church (ROKU) presentation which gave indication of being charismatic short of speaking in tongues so to that extent I agree.

Baptists being open to accepting the spirit felt in the worship place to be that Holy Spirit, can have spirits fall on them and cause them to speak in tongues too. Sometime the phenomenon can happen elsewhere by believers doing something else during the day.

Pentecostals that do not believe in slain in spirit and holy laughter will continue to defend the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as received later on apart from salvation during the life of a believer, can fall victim to slain in the spirit phenomena. I came across a poster in here speaking of that event... forgot his name, but he testified how someone came up and try to stop it and fell slain in the spirit for which @amadeus ( think that was his name ) replied to him in that thread in support of it. I do not believe either one was Baptist, but just citing an example how Baptists are at risk for falling for it too.[/QUOTE]

 

[HankD]

Don't forget Romans 8:27 to get the full testimony on how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's is given to God the Father.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

So that "he" is Jesus that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 as the same "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit which is in according to the will of God being Jesus the only Mediator between God and men. By Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit from that throne of grace is how the silent intercessions of the Spirit is given to the Father.

That truth along with John 16:13 also helps in discerning that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for prayer so believers can discern the spirit that brings tongues that does not come with interpretation to not assume it is a prayer language, because that spirit that has come over the believer later on in life apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel is NOT the Holy Spirit



Believing that the presence that Baptist feel in the worship place to be the Holy Ghost is why Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Catholics can join in. They too feel that presence even without the elaborate confusion, but it is still not the Holy Ghost.



@Reynolds has testified as if there is nothing wrong with slain in the spirit in another thread in response to @JonShaff citing slain in the spirit is not of Him … and which I had replied as well.

Do Baptists Seek Presence of Holy Spirit in Worship?

That answers that question.​

Two in the valley; one had pushed commitment to follow Christ as if that is the power believers need to make and keep in how to follow Him.

The other one pushed tithes and having few on staff, would not stop to cleaning the restroom.

But I did not stick around long enough to find out if they were, however... in that same other thread already provided by that link in his post... alarms are ringing.

This link provided by @Jerome in post #2 of that thread was where I got the other quotes from that sounds like Charismatics & Pentecostals & Catholics.

2nd VIEW: Pastors' prayer meeting called Spirit-infused 'epic moment'

-- Chris Robeson (@chrisrobeson), senior pastor of Friendly Baptist Church in Tyler, Texas: "God was in the room and strengthening hearts of pastors to press forward and go all in for His glory!"

-- Kevin Ward (@SalemBroKevin), pastor of Salem Springs Baptist Church in Athens, Ala.: "Let us not get over quickly meeting with God. May He stay fresh in our hearts each and every day."

Michael Catt (@MichaelCatt), senior pastor of Sherwood Baptist Church in Albany, Ga., said afterward he felt encouraged, hungry for more of God, and a longing for others to feel the same.

"NOW praying for a MOMENT to be a MOVEMENT!" Catt wrote



Baptists being open to accepting the spirit felt in the worship place to be that Holy Spirit, can have spirits fall on them and cause them to speak in tongues too. Sometime the phenomenon can happen elsewhere by believers doing something else during the day.

Pentecostals that do not believe in slain in spirit and holy laughter will continue to defend the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as received later on apart from salvation during the life of a believer, can fall victim to slain in the spirit phenomena. I came across a poster in here speaking of that event... forgot his name, but he testified how someone came up and try to stop it and fell slain in the spirit for which @amadeus ( think that was his name ) replied to him in that thread in support of it. I do not believe either one was Baptist, but just citing an example how Baptists are at risk for falling for it too.

[/QUOTE]
Thanks HNC you have indeed answered well.

 

[Jerome]

It must be remembered that Southern Baptist holy roller types were made certain promises by Conservatives in return for their support of the Convention takeover.

From a comment quoting Paul Pressler on the website of Denny Burk of SBTS, pesident of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood:

dennyburk.com/uneasy-in-babylon/

"Paul Pressler’s A Hill On Which to Die (1999). This has been a fascinating book to read of one of the 'movers', if you will, in the SBC Conservative resurgence.
.....
one thing of particular interest...
.....
'Wallace Henley, pastor of Encourager Church in Houston and a former president of the Alabama convention....He and I met several times during the early days of the conservative resurgence. The liberals had said that after the conservatives finished with those who held different views of the nature of the Bible, they would begin attacking the charismatics (neo-Pentecostals)....Such a charge was ludicrous, but it did worry some people such as...Wally Henley, who had charismatic leanings….I assured him the Paige [Patterson], our friends and I would not turn on charismatics"

 

[Jerome]

There was later an attempt to exclude those who practiced praying in tongues, from being Southern Baptist missionaries. Such a ban was in put into effect for several years, but was rescinded when David Platt became president of the mission board.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Thanks HNC you have indeed answered well.

I give thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ for that... as well as you receiving the truth why the Holy Spirit is no longer to be felt outside of us as they did with the Jews at the Temple per the Old Covenant, because we know Him as dwelling in us per the New Covenant as our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit now for why He is not located outside of us. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

It must be remembered that Southern Baptist holy roller types were made certain promises by Conservatives in return for their support of the Convention takeover.

From a comment quoting Paul Pressler on the website of Denny Burk of SBTS, pesident of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood:

dennyburk.com/uneasy-in-babylon/

"Paul Pressler’s A Hill On Which to Die (1999). This has been a fascinating book to read of one of the 'movers', if you will, in the SBC Conservative resurgence.
.....
one thing of particular interest...
.....
'Wallace Henley, pastor of Encourager Church in Houston and a former president of the Alabama convention....He and I met several times during the early days of the conservative resurgence. The liberals had said that after the conservatives finished with those who held different views of the nature of the Bible, they would begin attacking the charismatics (neo-Pentecostals)....Such a charge was ludicrous, but it did worry some people such as...Wally Henley, who had charismatic leanings….I assured him the Paige [Patterson], our friends and I would not turn on charismatics"

Thank you for sharing that information, BUT they did turn Charismatic after all when feeling the presence of the spirit in that room and thus assuming that was the Holy Spirit. It was that moment they were glorifying as a spiritual awakening as it was that moment they were hungering for more of that moment; hence the same thing that Charismatics do.

-- Chris Robeson (@chrisrobeson), senior pastor of Friendly Baptist Church in Tyler, Texas: "God was in the room and strengthening hearts of pastors to press forward and go all in for His glory!"

-- Kevin Ward (@SalemBroKevin), pastor of Salem Springs Baptist Church in Athens, Ala.: "Let us not get over quickly meeting with God. May He stay fresh in our hearts each and every day."

Michael Catt (@MichaelCatt), senior pastor of Sherwood Baptist Church in Albany, Ga., said afterward he felt encouraged, hungry for more of God, and a longing for others to feel the same.

"NOW praying for a MOMENT to be a MOVEMENT!" Catt wrote

So the Baptists that are not normally the holy roller type; just fell victim to chasing after the spirit for that moment again.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

There was later an attempt to exclude those who practiced praying in tongues, from being Southern Baptist missionaries. Such a ban was in put into effect for several years, but was rescinded when David Platt became president of the mission board.

Makes me wonder if any more Baptist member of this forum are waking up now and repenting from seeking the Holy Spirit in the worship place and even from honoring the Holy Spirit in the worship place so that they are narrowing the way back to the Son in how they come to God the Father in worship, prayer, and fellowship as scripture tells them to do in John 14:6 & John 5:22-23

 

[HankD]

Makes me wonder if any more Baptist member of this forum are waking up now and repenting from seeking the Holy Spirit in the worship place and even from honoring the Holy Spirit in the worship place so that they are narrowing the way back to the Son in how they come to God the Father in worship, prayer, and fellowship as scripture tells them to do in John 14:6 & John 5:22-23

I don't believe it is wrong to teach doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit when in expository teaching/preaching of Jesus Christ we come across Him in John chapters 14 through 16 for instance.

 

[utilyan]

"That means no believer can approach God the Father by the way of the Holy Spirit."

If you are talking to the Holy Spirit you are talking to God.


2 Corinthians 13

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.


KO verse-->the communion of the Holy Ghost


So when I commune with the holy spirit, GOD.....you know....avoid praying...... Be like.....hey holy spirit.....hows it hanging?

Maybe I should demand things and not ask at all. Lotto win and hot girlfriend, pronto.


Let me say every time I have asked the Holy Spirit for the lotto he has delivered 100% better then I expected.



Romans 15

30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; 31That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints; 32That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed. 33Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Prayer is a fancy word for request, Paul is praying/asking for intercession present company and saints.

Might help if you distinguish prayer from worship. It sounds like you are accusing of worshiping something other than God.

"That includes the iniquity that Baptists are involved in when seeking the Presence of the Holy Spirit "

God's presence.

We only worship ONE GOD.



If you say God does not answer prayers directed at the Holy Spirit.....Then how do you explain this handsome and perfectly gorgeous body of mine?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I don't believe it is wrong to teach doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit when in expository teaching/preaching of Jesus Christ we come across Him in John chapters 14 through 16 for instance.

As long as doctrines are derived from the teaching of Jesus Christ in John chapters 14 through 16, without exceeding beyond what was written about the Holy Spirit and without going against scripture elsewhere in the N.T. regarding how we are to approach God the Father by in worship, prayer, & fellowship and that is by the only way of the son and the moment they are not honoring the Son in worship, they are no longer honoring the Father in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus said that for a reason for why the honoring of the Holy Spirit is not mentioned as another way to honor the Father in worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6 is more than just about salvation, but how believers after they have been saved, are to continue to come to God the Father by as abiding in Him in worship, fellowship, and prayer as led by the Spirit of God to do.

That means those led by the Spirit of God will be honoring the Son in worship by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

By understanding the role of the Holy Spirit, we can understand when doctrines and practices and visitations of spirit that exceeds His role are contrary to scripture for what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do. Knowing that He is sent to testify of the Son to glorify the Son, how can He do that except through us? Only seducing spirits wishing to be felt in the worship would entice believers to take their eyes off of the Son in worship in chasing after them again for another visit in worship of them.

That is why there is no honoring of the Holy Spirit in worship because He is leading believers to honor the Son by testifying of Him in seeking His glory, and thereby honoring & glorifying God the Father, especially in worship where the mind of Christ regarding the Son is to exalt His name above every other name which is to the glory of God the Father; Philippians 2.5-11

 

[HankD]

As long as doctrines are derived from the teaching of Jesus Christ in John chapters 14 through 16, without exceeding beyond what was written about the Holy Spirit and without going against scripture elsewhere in the N.T. regarding how we are to approach God the Father by in worship, prayer, & fellowship and that is by the only way of the son and the moment they are not honoring the Son in worship, they are no longer honoring the Father in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus said that for a reason for why the honoring of the Holy Spirit is not mentioned as another way to honor the Father in worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6 is more than just about salvation, but how believers after they have been saved, are to continue to come to God the Father by as abiding in Him in worship, fellowship, and prayer as led by the Spirit of God to do.

That means those led by the Spirit of God will be honoring the Son in worship by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

By understanding the role of the Holy Spirit, we can understand when doctrines and practices and visitations of spirit that exceeds His role are contrary to scripture for what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do. Knowing that He is sent to testify of the Son to glorify the Son, how can He do that except through us? Only seducing spirits wishing to be felt in the worship would entice believers to take their eyes off of the Son in worship in chasing after them again for another visit in worship of them.

That is why there is no honoring of the Holy Spirit in worship because He is leading believers to honor the Son by testifying of Him in seeking His glory, and thereby honoring & glorifying God the Father, especially in worship where the mind of Christ regarding the Son is to exalt His name above every other name which is to the glory of God the Father; Philippians 2.5-11

Hmm, HNC it would seem by your exposition that we ought not to directly address the Father either when we pray.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Hmm, HNC it would seem by your exposition that we ought not to directly address the Father either when we pray.

Jesus taught us to pray to the Father whereby the Son is our access by that throne of grace. See?

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....

But all prayers are to be done in Jesus's name just as all thanksgiving to the Father is done in Jesus's name.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Ephesians 5:20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,....12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

That includes what you do in worship in songs too.

 

[HankD]

Jesus taught us to pray to the Father whereby the Son is our access by that throne of grace. See?

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....

But all prayers are to be done in Jesus's name just as all thanksgiving to the Father is done in Jesus's name.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Ephesians 5:20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,....12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

That includes what you do in worship in songs too.

Just making sure.

 

[Adonia]

Hmm, HNC it would seem by your exposition that we ought not to directly address the Father either when we pray.

I am interested in your opinion of the various creeds, either the Apostle's or Nicene. Biblically supported or not?

 

[HankD]

I am interested in your opinion of the various creeds, either the Apostle's or Nicene. Biblically supported or not?

yes I believe so. I had to look at the Nicene Creed again.

Assuming you realize that "catholic" is universal no matter what Rome says.

The only real issue in the Nicene Creed is that it says that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son" whereas the scripture declares that the Spirit proceeds from the father only.

I'm very sure there was a quarrel between the Eastern Catholics and Rome concerning this and it turned very ugly with bloodshed if I remember correctly.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

You know what? I am not even sure who was on which side its so unimportant to me - maybe it shouldn't be. I believe Rome was wrong.

I believe we (Baptists) would side with Rome on this one.

But I don't think I would sacrifice my life by refusing to say the Nicene Creed because of the dogma concerning the processional relationship of the Holy Spirit with the Father only or the Father and the Son.

Apparently it seemed so important in the day that you could have your throat slit for being "wrong".

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I am interested in your opinion of the various creeds, either the Apostle's or Nicene. Biblically supported or not?

Nicene creed is not Biblically supported; one web site attempted to list every scripture reference for each line in the Nicene creed, but the scripture reference for the "practice" of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son has nothing to do with the practice of worshipping of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. John 5:23 refutes that practice by citing the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son in worship by pointing out that when you are not honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father.

Contentions between 2 sources of scripture where Antioch kept spirit in small letter in John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 but the Alexandrian one capitalized the s in spirit, even though both scripture cite Jesus as the bread of life that gives life to the world in John 6:33 and He even said which scripture to believe in Who to come to for life in John 5:39-40. So the Nicene creed is in error for giving the glory of the title "Giver of Life" to the Holy Spirit.

Then there is that little reference to the one Catholic Church even though Protestant insists it just mean "universal" but Catholic and the world sees it as an agreement with them.

So the Nicene creed and the Apostle's creed are not Biblically supported.

The bottom line iniquity is when every denomination understood that it is an agreement being used by every denomination.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

There is no offense in God's eyes when a believer stop saying the creeds. Indeed, it would be an act of repentance to stop.

 

[Adonia]

Assuming you realize that "catholic" is universal no matter what Rome says.

Yes, the word with a little "c". Different then from the large "C" denoting a particular faith tradition.

The only real issue in the Nicene Creed is that it says that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son" whereas the scripture declares that the Spirit proceeds from the father only.

The original Nicene creed (Council of Nicea in 325) didn't have those words. They were inserted by the Latin Church at the Council of Constantinople in 381. It became one of the controversies between East and West, the other being a dispute over papal authority , with the Roman Pontiff claiming he held authority over the four Eastern patriarchs, while the four eastern patriarchs claimed that the primacy of the Patriarch of Rome was only honorary.

You know what? I am not even sure who was on which side its so unimportant to me - maybe it shouldn't be.

It's part and parcel of the history of Christianity and important to anyone or not, I think it's something every Christian should at least be aware of.

Thank you for your response.

 

[Adonia]

Nicene creed is not Biblically supported; one web site attempted to list every scripture reference for each line in the Nicene creed, but the scripture reference for the "practice" of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son has nothing to do with the practice of worshipping of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. John 5:23 refutes that practice by citing the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son in worship by pointing out that when you are not honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father.

That Scripture passage (John 5:23) has nothing to do with determining whether the Nicene Creed is biblical or not. Have you ever even read the Nicene Creed?

1. I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

So right here at the outset, we are stating the obvious, God, Father Almighty, and maker of all things. Do you not believe that?

2. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial (equal) with the Father; through Him all things were made, For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven.

Do you not believe those words? How can they in any way be un-biblical?

4. And by the Holy Spirit, was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became man.

That my friend is exactly what my Bible says. (And yours should be saying the same thing too)

5. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.

So tell me, just what is your problem with all that? Word from word, direct from the Holy Scriptures!

6. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified who has spoken through the prophets.

I addressed this in a different thread, but do you or do you not believe in the Holy Spirit? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all one in the Trinity, and are all to be adored and glorified. Don't believe that? Then my friend, would you ever blaspheme the Holy Spirit? (Go ahead and try it sometime, you'll be sorry!)

7. I believe in one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

And there we have it friends, the Nicene creed, direct from the Holy Scriptures. All of the things a Christian should have no problem with professing.