God's Purpose Accord to Election

What it all boils down to is pride, @Reformed. Ppl don't like having authority ripped out of their hands. They also hate the thought(s) of not being able to do something, I.E. make a choice. You take the choice away from them and they go berserk.

 

Quite frankly I don't think God is too happy with the thought some say he hasn't given all men choice either.

 

@Reformed, you hit the nail on the head. God's electing undeserving sinners to live with Him for all eternity is the over-arching theme throughout the bible.

We can read this Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”[Genesis 6:5-7] But then there's this But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.[vs 8] So, we can see that Noah was no different than the others, or it could not be said But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. If Noah found favor(grace) in God's sight, then that was unmerited favor.


Then a little later on we can also read in Genesis 12 that God sought Abram out, seeing he was a pagan[Joshua 24:2].

Then David was tending to the sheep in the mountains when Samuel came seeking for "one who a man after God's own heart."[1 Samuel 13:14 and Acts 13:22]

This narrative is all over the bible...God is the seeker, we were running from Him, and not seeking Him.

 

God commands all mankind to Love God and Love Neighbor.

God also commands that no one sin.


If God commands that you sit down. Take a hint, it means he wants you to sit down.

 

Without getting into particulars, we should be careful not to conflate God's absolute omniscience with His sovereign purpose and election.

 

Not getting into particulars is what gave us non-Calvinism

 

The Bible

 

Well you're right....Hyper-Calvinism doesn't make sense.

You see this is why your teaching doesn't add up. It's one thing spending time with people sharing the gospel knowing at least they're being given their chance. It's entirely a different thing to have God telling you to share the gospel with ALL with him all along not ever going to give such ones a chance. God says redeem the time for the days are evil, ( Eph 5:16) in other words make good use of your time. Such is God's will. So why would God contradict himself by telling you to engage in a thing with no purpose? Yes the sinner may reject the gospel but at least the space given for repentance was there, thus a purpose served. So where's the logic, where's the wisdom in God having you waste our time?

 

Here is the biblical definition of unconditional election...

“The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.[Deuteronomy 7:7,8]

There was nothing special in Israel that made God love them. They were not better ppl than the Egyptians, Assyrians, Syrians, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Jerichoites, et al. He loved them just because He loved them.

No other nation of ppl did God say He loved them. No other nation did He entrust the oracles of God to. No other nation had a sacrificial system that stayed their sins from year-to-year.

Carry this thought of loving His own over into the NT...

“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."[John 10:11] I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.[John 10:14-16] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”[John 10:27-30] Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.[John 13:1] “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life."[John 17:1b,2] “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word."[John 17:6] I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;[John 17:9] “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me."[John 17:20,21] Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."[John 17:24]

As you can see in these many verses I posted, the Christ was speaking about a very specific group of ppl in those verses. These ppl are His sheep, those the Father gave Him. He came to redeem them from the rest of fallen humanity.

 

Unconditional Favoritism.

Very Christlike example to follow. I'm Thanos.

 

Your pop culture analogy is flawed. Thanos showed no favortism, no mercy.

It is unseemly to compare our Lord and Savior to this fictious character. Probably crosses the line into blasphemy.

 

If you are addressing a post by Ut(I have him on ignore), that's him being par for his course.

 

You are correct they are different.

Our Lord and Savior is not monster. I don't even have to defend God he defends me. If anyone tries to accuse God of being evil it is a flat out joke to me, he certainly and obviously good. The Character of Jesus Christ.

Our view of God is not the same at all.

If I compare how some folks view God, it makes Thanos looks like a SAINT.

Thanos doesn't send anyone to hell. In his mind he is trying to save the universe.

The monster frequently portrayed as God here sends folks to hell for his glory, He authors sin,

He tells everyone I have a commandment that I want everyone to follow, but secretly doesn't want everyone to follow and randomly gives capacity.

Think about it. It is a COMMAND from God that no one should sin. But if I asked you does God REALLY want everyone to be a Saint and Saved? You are going to look me in the face and say NO.

I know my answer is yes.

People sin and people fall. Why? well its because they are totally depraved God did not give them the capacity or grace to handle it. God hasn't given them the gnostic voodoo to do or understand anything right.

I know my answer is they sin because its THEIR fault. Not the excuse after excuse we repeatedly hear.


The "God" often portrayed is flat out evil of course if I actually believed that, fear keeps me in check, I would say everything he does is good and righteous no matter what you see. I would be in terror of being smited instantly by God.

Way different views of God. Its between one that always lets you know "you deserve to go to hell" and nother who says you mean more to him then his SON.


Its a philosophy based on how would absolute power show Love and Kindness Versus how would Love and Kindness show absolute power.

When you get a sinful person to sit down and ponder how he would behave with absolute power, you get a flawed corrupt version of God.

As the saying goes "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

 

I believe a Christlike spirit is necessary to discuss scripture and these differing views. If you cannot accurately state your opponent's point of view, you are not demonstrating a Christlike spirit.

 

I apologize if I'm misrepresenting the position I am all ears. I'm not going to insist you believe anything you don't.

If you want to give the me the rundown of TULIP or the Doctrines of Grace as you understand it. That would be nice.

 

I'm happy to discuss any issue as long as the focus is scripture. I promise not to call you names, question your intelligence or pretend to know what motivates your opinions.

So, how do you see the 1 Cor passage that says the "natural man" is not able to understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually appraised?