The Great Irony

Restores to good standing, fellowship.

 

It was your last two paragraphs that appeared to me to be a caricature of what had gone before, but let it pass.

Thank you. I also spoke of Christ's identity with His people through the Everlasting Covenant.

I think it's fine. It isn't precisely the language that I would have used; and we must be careful of speaking of God punishing Himself lest we fall into the error of Patripassionism. I would also like to see the concept of 'satisfaction' in the definition, but it's good.

The Scripture doesn't say so. Also, we must get away from the idea of Christ I would sooner say that the justice of God was satisfied by the suffering and death of Christ.

Somewhere on the thread, you also said that Penal Substitution is about Man rather than about God. I disagree profoundly.
In his book, The Satisfaction of Christ, A.W. Pink speaks of the Efficacy of the Atonement under these headings:
The Purpose of God
The Covenant of God
The Veracity of God
The Power of God
The Justice of God
The Government of God
The Glory of God.
You can read it on line. I will post a link later.

 

The book, The satisfaction of Christ by A.W. Pink is published by Pietan Press. there doesn't seem to be an ISBN number.
It is also available on line. The chapter on the 'efficacy of the Atonement' can be found here: CHAPTER - THE ATONEMENT — ITS EFFICACY
The first six or seven paragraphs are a diatribe against Arminianism, so readers may want to scroll down to 1. The Purpose of God.

The whole book is a wonderful extended treatment of the Atonement. I thoroughly recommend it.

 

Something of what I wrote here seems to have disappeared. what I thought I wrote (or meant to write) is

"Also, we must get away from the idea of Christ 'being punished by God.' The sins of His people were punished by God in Christ (Isaiah 53:4-6). We must get away from the idea of God 'pouring out His wrath upon Christ.' I would sooner say that the justice of God was satisfied by the suffering and death of Christ."

Christ never ceased to be the beloved Son.

 

Sin is the breaking of the law of God, it is against His holy nature. and God just cannot pronounce us no longer guilty because he wants to, or as an Act of Love, as someone must pay the price and atone for sin!

 

The first passage refers to them avoiding the capital punishment for capital crimes committed, but nothing to do with spiritual aspect of sinning, as even if someone could live perfect, which only Jesus could do, they still must have atonement for their sin guilt imputed them from fall of Adam!

 

Jesus did NOT inherit our sin nature, for if he had, then he was not qualified to be the Messiah!

 

Jesus received from the Father what was due to us as sinners!

 

In order to allow God to have His Holiness and justice satisfied, someone must pay to Him the debt owed Him in order to have God satisfied, and still do not see How God can freely justify a lost sinner if Pst is not right!

 

he took upon Himself the SAME humanity as Adam had before the Fall!

 

What is your scripture(s).

Not saying they do not exist but to what scripture do you appeal?

 

Some folks like to say that Jesus could not be perfectly human if He did not receive the sin nature and that He overcame it which qualifies Him as Messiah.

 

Isaiah 53
I Peter 2:21-24

 

The scriptures though state that Jesus had no sin nature in Him, as the Virgin Birth allowed Him to bypass the Fall of Adam. and why would God need to overcome sinning, as it was impossible for Jesus to ever have sinned! Been tempted yes, but would not be able to sin!

 

1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Great!

Were the "stripes" Christ received "Punishment" or "Payment"?

 

Think that refers to Jesus bearing the wrath of God due to all of us!

 

Its almost a kind of hybrid between Punishment and Payment.

 

Jesus bore in Himself our due punishment, and thus paid for our sin debt!