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Eternally Begotten of the Father....or not.
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
Dave G
Well-Known Member
For:
" I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." ( Revelation 1:8 )
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." ( Revelation 13:8 )
" Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," ( 1 Peter 1:20 )
" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." ( Romans 8:29 )
" in whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" ( Colossians 1:14-15 )
" And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and ] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," ( Revelation 1:5 )
" And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence." ( Colossians 1:18 )
To me it's a concept that is developed by Scripture.
I can't find a passage that states it specifically like this:
" Eternally begotten of the Father", but the concept is there.
Christ was determined to go forth from eternity past, and to become the Saviour.
He was the first begotten of the dead ( we are the rest of those that are 'begotten", as believers ( James 1:18 ) ).
He was fore-ordained to be all that a Saviour could and should be.
Time being the "bubble" that I think that it is, anything that happened or happens outside of it was / is eternal, IMO.
So, God determining that His Son would go forth and pay for the believer's sins ( Matthew 1:21, Acts of the Apostles 10:43 ) in eternity past, would be the first begotten from the dead, and would be the only begotten Son of God ( instead of "son" ), makes Him the eternally begotten of the Father as the Second Person of the "Trinity".
37818
Well-Known Member
Not a single one of those verses support the false teaching of the Son being "eternally begotten." Those verses using "begotten" and "firstborn" all refer to the Son's incarnate bodily resurrection from the deed.For:
" I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." ( Revelation 1:8 )
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." ( Revelation 13:8 )
" Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," ( 1 Peter 1:20 )
" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." ( Romans 8:29 )
" in whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" ( Colossians 1:14-15 )
" And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and ] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," ( Revelation 1:5 )
" And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence." ( Colossians 1:18 )
To me it's a concept that is developed by Scripture.
I can't find a passage that states it specifically like this:
" Eternally begotten of the Father", but the concept is there.
Christ was determined to go forth from eternity past, and to become the Saviour.
He was the first begotten of the dead ( we are the rest of those that are 'begotten", as believers ( James 1:18 ) ).
He was fore-ordained to be all that a Saviour could and should be.
Time being the "bubble" that I think that it is, anything that happened or happens outside of it was / is eternal, IMO.
So, God determining that His Son would go forth and pay for the believer's sins ( Matthew 1:21, Acts of the Apostles 10:43 ) in eternity past, would be the first begotten from the dead, and would be the only begotten Son of God ( instead of "son" ), makes Him the eternally begotten of the Father as the Second Person of the "Trinity".
And that the only Biblical use of "begotten" in regards to the Son, is just that, a prophecy of His resurrection from the dead. Psalms 2:7. Acts 13:33.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I base my view that the Son was "eternally begotten of the Father", on the passages that foretold Him coming to Earth and being born of a virgin...from eternity past.
The foundation of the world was on Day 1.
Eternity past is anything prior to Day 1.
" But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that] is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting." ( Micah 5:2 )
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," ( 1 Peter 1:20 )
If you call that a false teaching, then that is your prerogative.
To me, Jesus Christ was, eternally, begotten of the Father by a woman.
He was determined from before the foundation of the world, not on Day 1.
There is where "eternally" comes in.
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37818
Well-Known Member
I base my view that the Son was "eternally begotten of the Father", on the passages that foretold Him coming to Earth and being born of a virgin...from eternity past.
The foundation of the world was on Day 1.
Eternity past is anything prior to Day 1.
" But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that] is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting." ( Micah 5:2 )
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," ( 1 Peter 1:20 )
If you call that a false teaching, then that is your prerogative.
To me, Jesus Christ was, eternally, begotten of the Father by a woman.
There is where "eternally" comes in.
What is "begotten" is not deity. The Son of God as the Son of man was "begotten" as the term is used in the Bible in Him being resurrected from the dead (Acts 13:33).
There is a distinction between His eternal deity and is finite and now for eternity humanity (Hebrews 13:8). He will always be the finite Man. And will never cease being from eternity the eternal God with His Father. But neather is what is ment by "eternally begotten of the Father," which is not biblical. What is "begotten" denotes being caused. The Son is the uncaused Son of God.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
He's "begotten" in that He was "begotten physically" by the Holy Ghost ( Luke 1:35 ).
He's "begotten", in that He was the first born of His brethren from the dead ( Colossians 1:14-15, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 ).
I think we're splitting hairs...
I agree,
The term "begotten" refers NOT to His deity, but to His humanity.
37818
Well-Known Member
He's "begotten" in that He was "begotten physically" by the Holy Ghost ( Luke 1:35 ).
He's "begotten", in that He was the first born of His brethren from the dead ( Colossians 1:14-15, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 ).
I think we're splitting hairs...
I agree,
The term "begotten" is NOT His deity, but His humanity.
Both uses are denoting a beginning, and being a cause.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I believe that you're referring to "Arianism", which I hold to be a false teaching.
Jesus Christ is both fully man, and fully God.
As God, He had no beginning nor ending.
He is the Alpha and Omega.
As man, He had a beginning, but does not have an ending.
He is the Son of Man, and a priest on the order of Melchizedek, who had no beginning.
Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly.
Are you saying that the Father, through the Holy Ghost, did not cause Jesus Christ to be born ( begotten ) of a woman?
"And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." ( Luke 1:30-35 )
...and that it wasn't declared to the Lord's apostles and prophets as being decided by the Father from eternity past ( Acts of the Apostles 2:23, Hebrews 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20 and others )?
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37818
Well-Known Member
The Nicene Creed was written as a refutation of Arianism, makes the unbiblcial statement "begotten of the Father before all worlds (ages). Which "begotten of the Father" is what Arius believed. And so then needs to add to "begotten" the words "not made."
There are many Christians who would make that creed the basis of orthodoxy.
It is not Biblical and it is not really Baptist. Though some baptist churches may endorse it.
Jesus is the living Word of the father who became human to dwell among us, and He is said to have been eternally begotten!
Begotten does NOT mean had a beginning, as he was and is the eternal Word of the Father!
He is saying that if jesus was begotten by the Father, he was caused and came into existence at some fixed point in time, hence not really God!
Problem is that Begotten refers to the truth that Jesus has always eternally existed as the Word of the Father Himself!
37818
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ's birth was caused (The [eternal, uncaused] Son of God is God the Father's sole agent by which all that God causes are caused (John 1:3).
The man Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Biblically the term "begotten" refers to a day in time He was as the Man, who is the Son of God and the Son of man was resurrected from the dead, Acts of the Apostles 13:33.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Not anywhere in the written word of God is the term "begotten" used to refer to the Eternal Son being eternal.
Nope, the Deity, the Nature of God was by the Holy Spirit placed in with the humanity that came from Mary herself!
Eternally begotten, so cannot refer to any fixed point in time!