God the Son was and still is the Eternally begotten Son of the Father, and that was the person who became Jesus of Nazareth!
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Eternally Begotten of the Father....or not.
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
Generate implies an active role on the part of the Father, emanate does not.
The scripture uses the word "bosom" from whence the Logos originates, the Logos can be said to be the eternal Son of God in that He originates from the innermost being of the Father.
The Logos became flesh in the womb of Mary.
Jesus is the Logos become flesh and became the Son of God as a human being manifest to the world.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The scripture uses the word "bosom" from whence the Logos originates, the Logos can be said to be the eternal Son of God in that He originates from the innermost being of the Father.
The Logos became flesh in the womb of Mary.
Jesus is the Logos become flesh and became the Son of God as a human being manifest to the world.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The Deity of Jesus was eternally Begotten, while his humanity has existed since the conception in womb of Mary!
Did a numbered person of God come in the flesh or did the, very thoughts and intent of God, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his <not in the Greek) Son, " from Heb 1:1,2 KJV - begotten in and born of woman; Matt 1:20, 25 Gal 4:4 Only begotten, Son. John 3:16
Did the God appoint this flesh born Son, the only begotten, Heir of all things, inclusive of eternal life and heir of the Kingdom of God?
He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; From Heb 1:2 NKJV
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; from Heb 2:14
This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth, 1 John 5:6 YLT for the definite article.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[fn] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Did the God appoint this flesh born Son, the only begotten, Heir of all things, inclusive of eternal life and heir of the Kingdom of God?
He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; From Heb 1:2 NKJV
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; from Heb 2:14
This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth, 1 John 5:6 YLT for the definite article.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[fn] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Christ shed His blood here on earth before His bodily ascension.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Being the Son of God has nothing to do with Jesus' humanity. In the economy of the Trinity, He has always been the Son. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega (Revelation 1:8). While Jesus is, indeed, the Logos become flesh (1 John 1:1), from eternity He is also the second person of the Trinity - the Son of God. When He took on flesh, He became the Son of God incarnate. Maybe we are splitting hairs but based on the phraseology you are using I am not so sure.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is correct, the eternal Son of God is not caused. Only in the appearances of God and in the incarnation did the Son of God proceded from the Father. (John 1:18; John 1:14; John 17)
37818
Well-Known Member
What does the writer of Hebrews claim regarding the Son of God (Hebrews 7:3)?
Do you see this as a change in the relationship between Persons of the Trinity, God "acting", or something else entirely?
37818
Well-Known Member
The Greek for "only begotten" is not at issue.
The Greek for "begotten" refers to a cause. Psalms 2:7, Acts of the Apostles 13:33.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Appearing and acting on behalf of God is that He is the Son of God. But the incarnation was a real and permanent change as to how He was "with" God, not any kind of change that He "was" God.
Of course He is the eternal Son of God. This is the third time I have borne witness.
But He is also the Son of Man which happened in the womb when He became flesh.
Personally I would not go so far as to say that the humanity (which He took upon Himself) of the Son of God has nothing to do with the "economy" (whatever that means) of the Trinity as the Son of God has taken on a human body in which to dwell throughout the endless ages with His brethren.
In your view is (present tense) the Second Person of the Trinity the God-Man Jesus Christ (The Logos clothed in humanity)?
Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Please forgive me if I confuse your words too much. What I understand you to say is that the second Person of the Trinity is the Son from the foundation of the world and the begotten Son from the Incarnation forward. Is that at least close?
37818
Well-Known Member
Ah, no. The seocnd person of the Trinity was always the Son (Hebrews 7:3; John 1:18; John 17:24; Hebrews 1:2-3; John 1:2-3). The Son being "begotten" was after His incarnation in that being His bodily resurrection (Psalms 2:7; Acts of the Apostles 13:33; Romans 1:4).
It is my understanding the before and from foundation of the world refers to the creation of man (See usage, John 17:24; Luke 11:50; Hebrews 9:26; John 3:16; 1 John 2:15-17; John 17:9-12).
Thank you for clarifying. That helps me understand your view of the Word as being eternally the Son (and I agree).
With the Son being "begotten",since you are looking to the resurrection rather than the Incarnation, are you then referring to this as Christ being the "Firstborn"?
37818
Well-Known Member
The "firstborn from the dead" Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:5; Romans 8:29; Hebrews 1:5-6.
Thank you for explaining.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
Emanate:
mid 18th century: from Latin emanat- ‘flowed out,’ from the verb emanare, from e- (variant of ex- ) ‘out’ + manare ‘to flow.’
" Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." ( John 8:42 )
" I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father." ( John 16:28 )
Aaron, in a rough sense I have to agree.
Why not let Hank explain?
ἐξέρχομαι
metaph.
- to go out of an assembly, i.e. forsake it
- to come forth from physically, arise from, to be born of
- to go forth from one's power, escape from it in safety
- to come forth (from privacy) into the world, before the public, (of those who by novelty of opinion attract attention)
- of things
γεννηθὲν < How are we to understand that word relative to proceeding from the Father?
? Father?
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. Hebrews 7:9,10
When did Levi become a Son?
I have asked before.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 4:16
Did Jesus of Nazareth, brought forth as the firstborn son of Mary, pay tithes in Abraham?
Agreed. And in that blood was his soul being, through the Spirit (breath) of lives. Lev 17:11 & Gen 2:7
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.. Isa 53:12
Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" And after he said this he breathed his last. Luke 23:46
After that, was the spirit of the Son in the power of the Son or the power of the Father? Did time pass by before the Christ was quickened again to Spirit? What Spirit?