How is it that Christ's death is "for our sins"?

[Gup20]

The Promises
But Jesus had the benefit of a promise from God that God would lift Him out of hell… that God would not leave His soul in Sheol, and that He would again inherit righteousness back to Himself.

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Hebrews 1:4
having become as much better than the angels, as He has inheriteda more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherdof the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

This begs the question – why does God promise Jesus that He won’t leave His soul in hell, and why is salvation promised to Jesus Christ? Why does Paul say that Jesus is the one “to whom the promise had been made.” What promise? As we’ll soon see from Galatians 3, the promise was that of lifeas an everlasting inheritancefor the spiritual descendants of Abraham! All Jesus has to do to inherit again His own righteousness is believe God’s promise to Himself. So then Jesus becomes the example for us – the first raised out of hell and death in the fulfillment of God’s promise that He would inherit that righteousness. We have full assurance that salvation through faith is possible because Jesus Christ has already been the first to be – as Hebrews 13:20 says – raised through the blood of the eternal covenant or as Hebrews 1:4 says He “inherited” a more excellent name

Romans 6:5
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

1Corinthians15:23
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

Colossians 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Hebrews 6:12
so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

 

[Dave G]

As such, he no longer had any righteousness in and of himself.

And that is where I say to you, " Please look again, sir".

His righteousness continues and is eternal.
His righteousness is what all of His sheep partake of in the sight of God the Father, and has been imputed to us.
It isn't transferred ( taken from one and given to the other ), it is imputed ( credited ).

His righteousness remains His and was always His.

" My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" ( 1 John 2:1 )

If He gave away His righteousness to believers, then He would not be able to sit at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for His sheep ( Hebrews 7:25, Hebrews 9:24-28 ).

 

[Gup20]

Galatians 3:6
Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

This is the scriptural basis for faith being the exchange currencyfor righteousness. Paul shows that the Torah, the law itself, provides the basis for salvation by faith because he is quoting from Genesis 15 (part of the Torah).

Genesis 15:5
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

What God showed me was that it wasn’t that Abraham simply believed God when He told him any random thing. The reason Abraham was credited as righteous was because he believed something very specific. For example, if God said “the sky is blue” and I believed Him, it doesn’t make me righteous. Paul continues to lay out the case in Galatians 3 for us:

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

According to Paul, when God says to Abraham in Genesis 15:5“so shall thy seed be” He was talking about Jesus Christ! It wasn’t that Abraham believed any random thing, but rather that God told Abraham specifically about Jesus Christ, and when Abraham believed God regarding Jesus Christ, he was made righteous. Isn’t this the same as we Christians do today? Aren’t we made righteous by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ? Some might say, “but faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.” Yes, that is true and I believe that God Himself was preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to Abraham and when Abraham believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, he was saved – or made righteous. Paul confirms this in Galatians 3:8:

Galatians 3:8
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSEDIN YOU.”

So Abraham was made righteous because God preached the gospel to him and he believed the gospel! This means Abraham was the first “Christian” – the first person saved by grace through their faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul confirms that Abraham was indeed the first believer:

Galatians 3:7
Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:9
So then those who are of faith are blessedwith Abraham, the believer.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.”

Paul then moves into describing to the Galatians how this works. Paul reiterates that while righteousness can come by the covenant of the law, there will be no one who will be made righteous that way (presumably because all have sinned and are thereby disqualified from being declared righteous by The Law). The only way to be made perfectly and permanently righteous once you have sinned, is through the covenant of faith.

Galatians 3:11
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

Habakkuk 2:4
“Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.

Paul describes that the righteousness we receive is the righteousness of Christ. He redeems us by purchasing us, and exchanging his righteousness for our sin – but even more specifically Christ’s righteousness went to Abraham.

Galatians 3:14
in order that in Christ Jesusthe blessing of Abrahammight come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spiritthrough faith.

Hebrews 2:16
For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

Galatians 3:14reminds me of Deuteronomy 30. The Bible sometimes uses the word blessingas a synonym for salvation, and an antonym for sin and death.

Deuteronomy 30:19
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessingand the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Paul talks about the promise of the spirit through faith. So what is this promise? The next section of Galatians 3 describes this.

Galatians 3:14
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessingof Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promiseof the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16 Now the promiseswere spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenantpreviously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritanceis based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

This promise is the promise of salvation. It is the gospel. In verse 15 Paul defines this promise as being the very covenantof faith itself. He goes on in verse 16 to say these promises were spoken to Abraham, but were specifically referencing (and being made TO) Christ and those in Christ. Then Paul makes a powerful and illuminating statement in verse 17 – the covenant of faithcame 430 years beforethe covenant of The Law. When you look at this statement with verse 15 – that once a covenant has been ratified, you cannot add conditions to it or set it aside, you realize that there is no legitimate theological position for any sort of works-based salvation. So when was this covenant ratified?

The covenant of faith was ratified by God in Genesis 15 – immediately following God making Abraham righteous by his faith in the gospel. The Law, which came 430 years later, doesn’t modify the covenant of faith.

The next point to note is that Paul says in Galatians 3:18that this promise is an inheritablepromise. Indeed, we see from the Genesis account, God makes it an “everlasting covenant” that will be inherited by all of Abraham’s descendants.

Genesis 17:2
And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nationshave I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seedafter thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Here in Genesis 17:7we see that God is establishing the covenant of faith with Abraham and says that it will be an “everlasting covenant” both to Abraham and then inherited by his “seed” in theirgenerations. This alludes to the fact that while the promise is being made toChrist, it is also to those who are “in Christ.”

I believe that God is referring to Abraham’s spiritual seed (those who have the same faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ that Abraham had), not his physical seed (the Jews). I do leave room (and I think a case can be made) for the possibility of a simultaneous dual meaning. I no longer have room for a physical-descendant-only interpretation. This is confirmed by many passages:

Galatians 3:7
Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Galatians 4:30
But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Hebrews 2:16
For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.”

Isaiah 54:1
“Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no child; Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed; For the sons of the desolate one will be more numerous Than the sons of the married woman,” says the LORD.

 

[Dave G]

This is the scriptural basis for faith being the exchange currencyfor righteousness.

Again, it isn't an exchange, it's a crediting.
He keeps it, and it is then expanded to include the believer by His Father ( Romans 3:22-23, Romans 4:5-8 ).

Believers have been adopted into His righteousness...

As Christ sits on the right hand of the Father, in sinless perfection and representing our sinless Sacrifice, His Father looks on His Son's blood and righteousness when He looks at those He saved.
His Son still retains His righteousness, or His Father would not allow Him to be seated next to Him.

God will not regard ( look favorably ) on sin...and to have Christ, in whom is no sin, sit next to Him and still be sin for us, would be to look favorably on sin.

Christ became sin for us...that ended at His death.
He is risen, and is now our perfect Mediator.
A perfect priest without sin.

 

[Gup20]

And that is where I say to you, " Please look again, sir".

His righteousness continues and is eternal.
His righteousness is what all of His sheep partake of in the sight of God the Father, and has been imputed to us.
It isn't transferred ( taken from one and given to the other ), it is imputed ( credited ).

I agree, His righteousness is eternal and endures. We inherit it. However, it was given to Abraham in a 1:1 exchange for the corporate judgement of the world. Then that righteousness was promised as an inheritance to all of Abraham's descendants:

Gen 15:5-6 NASB -
5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Gen 17:7 NASB -
7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

His righteousness remains His and was always His.

" My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" ( 1 John 2:1 )

If He gave away His righteousness to believers, then He would not be able to sit at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for His sheep ( Hebrews 7:25, Hebrews 9:24-28 ).

Ah, but He had a promise from God that He would again inherit His own righteousness back if He but had the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had - becoming Abraham's spiritual descendant and inheritor of His own righteousness which was exchanged with Abraham for the sin of the world.

2Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Philippians 2:5
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”​

Do you believe Jesus was lying - that He was not sin-fillled and thereby separated from God?

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”—​

Deuteronomy 21:23
his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.​

Do you believe Jesus did not become sin... that he was not cursed by God... or does scripture have it wrong here?

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Isaiah 53:6
All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.​

Do you believe that our iniquity did fall on him, or was he eternally righteous?

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Hebrews 1:4
having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,​

Why does the scripture say Christ INHERITED his name, and why does it say he was raised from the dead through the eternal covenant? Jesus was raised from the dead by EXACTLY the same means and covenant that we were.... the distinction of Jesus was he was the one who's life on earth provided the righteousness that would be given to Abraham in the great exchange.

Gen 28:4
“May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham.”

Gal 3:14
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

 

[Gup20]

Again, it isn't an exchange, it's a crediting.
He keeps it, and it is then expanded to include the believer by His Father ( Romans 3:22-23, Romans 4:5-8 ).

Believers have been adopted into His righteousness...

As Christ sits on the right hand of the Father, in sinless perfection and representing our sinless Sacrifice, His Father looks on His Son's blood and righteousness when He looks at those He saved.
His Son still retains His righteousness, or His Father would not allow Him to be seated next to Him.

God will not regard ( look favorably ) on sin...and to have Christ, in whom is no sin, sit next to Him and still be sin for us, would be to look favorably on sin.

Christ became sin for us...that ended at His death.
He is risen, and is now our perfect Mediator.
A perfect priest without sin.

He had to give up his righteousness in order to receive it again as an inheritance, thereby DEMONSTRATING the eternal covenant as valid. We can have FULL ASSURANCE that salvation by faith alone apart from the law works because it was that very covenant that has already demonstrably raised Christ from the dead.

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.​

This verse begs the question - why would God PROMISE salvation to Christ? It says the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed - singular - meaning Jesus Christ - until that seed - singular- (the one to whom the promise had been made) would come.

Hebrews 1:4
having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,​

Jesus was resurrected and given (in his case, his own) righteousness as an inheritance for believing God's promise (the gospel) just the same as we Christians are. Believing the Gospel merely qualifies a person as a spiritual descendant of Abraham and then as a spiritual descendant, you inherit Christ's righteousness. Jesus was simply the first to fully obtain His full inheritance (so that he would have preeminence).

This MUST be case... otherwise Christ (or some other sinless figures) would have to die once for every person who was saved. By a 1:1 exchange with Abraham, and then by God PROMISING (making a covenant with) Abraham that it would be an eternal inheritance for all his descendants, it can spread from the one to the many, just as Adam's iniquity did.

Romans 6:5
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

1Corinthians 15:23
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

Colossians 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Hebrews 6:12
so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,​

What a powerful testimony this is. It means that the very covenant we are saved by - the covenant of righteousness by faith alone in the gospel - has actually be done once. We know it works. We have an example of it's completion. Jesus himself actually proved it works. He gave up his righteousness and became sin so that we could become righteous with His righteousness.... of course He knew He would also inherit again His own righteousness, and had great faith in that gospel.

 

[Gup20]

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Romans 10:5
For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down),
7 or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,


Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.


Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.


Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. ​

The righteousness we receive is the righteousness based on faith, not the righteousness based on The Law. It is apart from the law because the covenant of Faith (the everlasting covenant) was made 430 years before the covenant of The Law, and is OUTSIDE OF and APART FROM the law. The covenant of faith made with Abraham was made and ratified 430 years before The Law was given... therefore The Law does not modify nor add conditions to the covenant of Faith.

Gal 3:14-19 NASB -
14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is [only] a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.​

The Covenant of Faith was ratified by God in Genesis 15 when He had Abraham split animals in half and God passed between the halves as a pillar of fire. This was 430 years before The Law, therefore, it is apart from The Law and the The Law does not add conditions to the Covenant of Faith.

So we know from this that The Covenant of Faith exists outside of and apart from The Law, but the The Law has never existed in time without The Covenant of Faith already having existed.

It begs the question too - which Law of Moses did Abraham follow to become righteous or to verify his faith was genuine? None. It didn't yet exist. Yet Abraham was made righteous for his faith int he gospel of Christ PRIOR to being circumcised.

Romans 4:7
“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;​

Paul says that Abraham was made righteous by his faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ prior to being circumcised. He makes this point to demonstrate that Abraham was made righteous as a Gentile, but it has deeper implications as well. It shows Abraham’s righteousness came before any works were performed. So why circumcision?

Romans 4:11
and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

We can see that he was righteous prior to being circumcised, so his circumcision didn’t make him righteous, his faith made him righteous. But this still doesn’t answer the question of why circumcision. Why wouldn’t God just say Abraham could wear a club ring on his finger signifying his faith, or a certain color robe or something?

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.​

Circumcision is a type and shadow of the Holy Spirit within us; it is the seal of the righteous… the pledge of the full inheritance yet to come after our death. Just as circumcision in the flesh is the sign and symbol of belonging to the earthly family of Jacob (the Jews), circumcision of the heart (the Holy Spirit in us) is the symbol of belonging to the family of Israel (the Christians).

So when James says that without works, faith is dead... what he's saying is that works acts as a JUDGE as to whether or not faith is real or genuine... it is not a prerequisite for righteousness. Faith alone is needed for righteousness, but works verifies one as having genuine, enduring faith. For Abraham's faith wasn't justified until he offered Isaac (according to James) yet Abraham was credited with righteousness at least a decade before offering Isaac... even prior to being circumcised.

 

[Dave G]

Ah, but He had a promise from God that He would again inherit His own righteousness back if He but had the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had - becoming Abraham's spiritual descendant and inheritor of His own righteousness which was exchanged with Abraham for the sin of the world.

Ouch.

You've quoted Philippians 2:5-9, which I've added the next couple of verses to:


" Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, [and] being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." ( Philippians 2:3-11, NASB )


Which is different in the AV:


" Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father." ( Philippians 2:5-8 )


Christ "did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped"
Versus
Christ "thought it not robbery to be equal with God".

Do you begin to see the problem?

The passage in the NASB states that He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped ( attained ).

In the AV, it says that He did not think it was stealing from God, to be equal with God.
He is God incarnate.

Big difference.

It looks to me as if, based on the difference in translation, you've formulated this theory that Christ gave up His own righteousness on the cross, and became an unrighteous man who then gained back His own righteousness by believing in His own Gospel.



Christ did not give up His righteousness for us.

He gave up His prior glory that He had with the Father, to become a man, suffer and die and be raised again as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of His people, and then become the mediator of a better covenant between God and men.
God the Father imputed our sins to Him, and He bore them as a perfect, sinless sacrifice.
He is still God, and He is still righteous.

What you are proposing is a false teaching, and puts the Son of God as having actually been sinful, by giving up His righteousness and then "re-inheriting it back" again.

He gave up his righteousness and became sin so that we could become righteous with His righteousness.... of course He knew He would also inherit again His own righteousness, and had great faith in that gospel.

Christ had faith in His own Gospel, by which men are saved?
Gup, as I see it, you've stepped over the line and are declaring that Christ:

1) Gave up His own righteousness.
2) Re-inherited His own righteousness by faith in His own Gospel ( faith in Himself as His own Saviour? )
3) Passes that faith on to those that believe the Gospel.

Jesus was resurrected and given (in his case, his own) righteousness as an inheritance for believing God's promise (the gospel) just the same as we Christians are. Believing the Gospel merely qualifies a person as a spiritual descendant of Abraham and then as a spiritual descendant, you inherit Christ's righteousness. Jesus was simply the first to fully obtain His full inheritance (so that he would have preeminence).

To me, you've dragged Him down to the level of men and made Him unrighteous, as a man.
You then posit that He believes His own Gospel in order to pass on, as an example birthed by Himself, the idea that mankind then follows His perfect example...

Only it wasn't a perfect example, was it ( if what you are saying is true)?

If Christ ever gave up His own righteousness, then He actually became sinful.
In God's eyes, He actually became imperfect and unrighteous...a lamb WITH spot and blemish.

Christ's inheritance is His bride...the body of Christ;
Not His own righteousness credited back to Him for exercising faith in His own Gospel.


Are you sure you want to go this direction?

 

[Gup20]

Christ became sin for us...that ended at His death.
He is risen, and is now our perfect Mediator.
A perfect priest without sin.

I agree with you that Christ became sin, and that he died for the sin that was laid upon him. However, I believe there was a cause for him to become righteous again. There was a legal reason for him to be made righteous.

How does Christ "revert" back to sinlessness or righteousness after having taken on the sin of the world at his death? What causes Him to become righteous again? If this automatic reversionis the case, then all of us would revert back to sinfulness after our death, and the whole process would be ineffectual.

The only legal way it works is if Christ actually gives up his righteousness in a 1:1 exchange with Abraham and then God promises that very same righteousness as an everlasting inheritance to all of Abraham's spiritual descendants - those with the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had. In fact, this is the meaning of John 8:

Jhn 8:31-44 NASB - 31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, [then] you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35 "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 "I speak the things which I have seen with [My] Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from [your] father." 39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? [It is] because you cannot hear My word. 44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [nature,] for he is a liar and the father of lies.​

Jesus says they are "qualified" as children of Satan rather than children of God and Abraham. This shows that it is the spiritual descendants who inherit righteousness. Jesus went on to verify that Abraham had faith in the gospel.

John 8:56
“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”​

By doing it this way, both Jesus & us can permanently do away with sin and death AND have permanent, everlasting life.

 

[Dave G]

However, I believe there was a cause for him to become righteous again. There was a legal reason for him to be made righteous.

There is a legal reason for Him to have never lost His own righteousness...
So that He is this:

" But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" ( 1 Peter 1:19 ).
" For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." ( 2 Corinthians 5:21 )
" But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" ( 1 Corinthians 1:30 )

Read this carefully:

"For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" ( Hebrews 7:26 )

Read my prior post above, carefully as well.

How does Christ "revert" back to sinlessness or righteousness after having taken on the sin of the world at his death? What causes Him to become righteous again?

He never lost His sinlessness before God...
God imputed our sins to Him, even though Christ was, and remained, fully innocent of sin.

The only legal way it works is if Christ actually gives up his righteousness in a 1:1 exchange with Abraham and then God promises that very same righteousness as an everlasting inheritance to all of Abraham's spiritual descendants - those with the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had.

To me, you're claiming that He gave up His righteousness and became defiled, so that believers could inherit that righteousness.

By doing it this way, both Jesus & us can permanently do away with sin and death AND have permanent, everlasting life.

He is the Way, the Truth and the Life...He doesn't gain it along with freedom from sin and death, by faith in His own Gospel.

As I see it, that doesn't "wash", and takes Him down from off His throne that His Father set Him on, and relegates Him to the level of sinful men.
Our perfect sacrifice and atonement wasn't perfect, if what you're saying is true.

Again, are you sure you want to go this direction?

 

[Gup20]

You've quoted Philippians 2:5-9:
Do you begin to see the problem?
He did not think it was stealing from God, to be equal with God.
He is God incarnate.

It looks to me as if, based on the difference in translation, you've formulated this theory that Christ gave up His own righteousness on the cross, and became a sinful man.

I see what you are saying, but you've completely missed the point. The point is not whether or not Jesus thought he deserved to be equal to God (which is the question you translation issue is raising), but rather what he actually did about it. All the translations agree about what he did about it... he emptied or humbled himself and became obedient to death on a cross. Death on a cross was becoming sin-filled or cursed (Deu 21:23).

In my interpretation both the NASB and AV translations of Phil 2:6 make sense.

Christ did not give up His righteousness for us.
God the Father imputed our sins to Him, and He bore them as a perfect, sinless sacrifice.

If it's possible to be a sinner and righteous at the same time, then I choose not to be a sinner in spite of my sin. Being righteous is to be "without sin." When Jesus had the iniquity of all laid on him, he definitely wasn't "without sin."

What you are proposing is a false teaching, and puts the Son of God as having actually been sinful, by giving up His righteousness and then "re-inheriting it back" again.

I don't think it's false teaching to say that Jesus chose to have our sin laid upon him.

2Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Psalms 16:10
For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”—

Isaiah 53:6
All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.​

Numbers 21:8
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live.”​

That was a type and shadow for Christ. Christ became sin (represented by the serpent) on that cross – our sin. Those who look upon this sacrifice will be healed. Healing is what Christ came do. Jesus was fully God, but he was also fully man. As fully man, when God laid the sin of the world upon him on that cross, he contained in his flesh the fullness of our sin.

Christ had faith in His own Gospel, by which men are saved?
Gup, as I see it, you've stepped over the line and are declaring that Christ:

1) Gave up His own righteousness.
2) Re-inherited His own righteousness by faith in His own Gospel ( faith in Himself as His own Saviour? )
3) Passes that faith on to those that believe the Gospel.

1) Yes.
2) Sort of. He had faith in God's promise (which is the gospel). Remember it was God who made the promises to Abraham at the outset of the covenant of faith. A covenant is a promise. Jesus didn't have faith in himself, he had faith in The Gospel. This didn't "save him" or "make him righteous" or "give him life" because The Gospel are magical, mystical words that when chanted endue to speaker or hearer with mystical power... he was made righteous for faith in the promise because that is how one becomes an heir of the promise... by believing God's gospel. See Gal 3:8: The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” It was God's gospel, not Jesus Gospel. It was about Jesus, but it was God's message that Christ believed. The trap of faith is those (such as the Word of Faith movement) who have faith in faith, rather than Faith in the Gospel.
3) No. This is a Calvinist mindset that has no bearing on salvation. The Gift of Faith is not salvation, but rather a manifestation of the spirit for those who are already saved in order to help them carry out the ministry. If faith were a salvation gift, then you would have to acknowledge that 1 Corinthians 12 speaks of Word of Knowledge, healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues. You would have to conceed that all of these "gifts" were given to the unsaved people without faith.

1Co 12:11-12, 29-31 NASB - 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. 12 For even as the body is one and [yet] has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not [workers of] miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.​

So according to this, not everyone gets all of these gifts. Some get some gifts and some get others... but all are part of one body. In Calvin's interpretation with faith as a gift, to be consistent you would have to acknowledge that not all christians would be saved or have faith.... and that anyone who prophecies, heals, works miracles, discerns spirits, is an apostle, teacher, etc would be unsaved.

To me, you've dragged Him down to the level of men and made Him unrighteous, as a man.

To me, He willingly gave up his fullness and humbled himself to become like an unrighteous man.

If Christ ever gave up His own righteousness, then He actually became sinful.

In God's eyes, He actually became imperfect and unrighteous.

Yes, he actually became sin just as the Bible says. This is why God forsook Him on the cross (or do you think Jesus was lying about that?). This is why Moses raised a standard of a SERPENT which healed all who looked upon it.

Christ's inheritance is His bride...the body of Christ.
Not His own righteousness credited back to Him for exercising faith in His own Gospel.

Gal 3:13-19 NASB -
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is [only] a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

This promise was being made to Abraham, but Paul makes the point that it's actually being made TO CHRIST. Christ is the seed to whom the promise had been made. A promise is a covenant. The covenant of faith is made TO Christ through Abraham. All Abraham, Christ, or us have to do to inherit this promise is have faith in God's gospel.

 

[Dave G]

I don't think it's false teaching to say that Jesus chose to have our sin laid upon him.

I agree ( Isaiah 53:6, Romans 4:25, 1 Corinthians 2:13-14, Hebrews 9:28, 1 Peter 2:24 ).

I think it's false teaching to say that He gave up His own righteousness, and then "re-inherited it" by His own act of faith...in His own Gospel.
Which includes Himself as Saviour.

1) Yes.
2) Sort of. He had faith in God's promise (which is the gospel).
3) No. This is a Calvinist mindset that has no bearing on salvation.

1) No, He did not give up His righteousness ( Psalms 111:3, Psalms 119:142, Jeremiah 23:5, Romans 3:25-26, 1 Corinthians 1:30, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 9:14, 1 Peter 1:19 ).

2) No, He had faith that His Father was with Him, despite all His trials and tribulations ( John 8:29, John 10:30, John 16:32 ).

The Gospel is about Him, not for Him.
He never needed a Saviour...He is the Saviour.

3) No, that is not "Calvinism", it is the Bible.

Our faith is the faith "of Christ" ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:20, Philippians 3:9 )...it originates ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and was given ( Jude 1:3 ) to His saints as a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ), not as a reward.



Since it seems you are set on continuing this way of teaching, despite my efforts to point you to Scripture, I must now take a step that I am reluctant to take...

Based on Titus 3:10-11, I must reject you as my brother.
Please consider that your views about Christ actually giving up His righteousness are not Scriptural, and they are in error.


I wish you well, sir.

 

[Gup20]

He never lost His sinlessness before God...
God imputed our sins to Him, even though Christ was, and remained, fully innocent of sin.

Just as innocent as the spotless lamb that the high priest would offer year by year in the holiest of holies. Yet when the priest would lay his hands on it and transfer the sin of the nation to it, the lamb would die filled with the sin of Israel. The Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world experienced the same.

To me, you're claiming that He gave up His righteousness and became defiled, so that believers could inherit that righteousness.

Yep.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

Genesis 17:2 (KJV)
And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.​

In Hebrews it says Jesus was raised from the dead by the promise or covenant God made with Abraham (the everlasting covenant).

He is the Way, the Truth and the Life...He doesn't gain it along with freedom from sin and death, by faith in His own Gospel.

Truly He is the way... His righteousness is the only righteousness whereby anyone can draw near to God. Again, not faith in himself, but faith in God's gospel, and God's promise or covenant with Abraham. Faith in the truth about Him (just as Abraham believed the truth about Jesus), not faith in His own power. Faith in what God said He would do through Him.

As I see it, that doesn't "wash", and takes Him down from off His throne that His Father set Him on, and relegates Him to the level of sinful men.
Our perfect sacrifice and atonement wasn't perfect, if what you're saying is true.

It was a spotless sacrifice when it was "offered." But just as the lamb and scapegoat are transferred the sin of people, so too was our sin laid upon Jesus.

 

[agedman]

Just as innocent as the spotless lamb that the high priest would offer year by year in the holiest of holies. Yet when the priest would lay his hands on it and transfer the sin of the nation to it, the lamb would die filled with the sin of Israel. The Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world experienced the same.

Do you not agree that The Christ was both the high priest and the lamb?

That He was both the tabernacle and the altar?

That He was both the veil and the mercy seat?

Christ was the whole package.

Therefore, He was never "filled with the sin."

A human example is perhaps considering that one can carry the bucket of water, can have it slosh upon that person, but choose not ever be filled with that same water. Christ became the "water toting (bearing) one.

The Scripture states that it was GOD Himself who made Christ (who knew no sin) to be sin on our behalf. (2 Corinthians 5) not that God mad Christ filled with sin on our behalf.

J

Truly He is the way... His righteousness is the only righteousness whereby anyone can draw near to God. Again, not faith in himself, but faith in God's gospel, and God's promise or covenant with Abraham. Faith in the truth about Him (just as Abraham believed the truth about Jesus), not faith in His own power. Faith in what God said He would do through Him.

From some earlier reading in the posts, I am assuming that you are considering that Christ lost that righteousness of God at the crucifixion and then in some manner attained it again?

If so, you would be incorrect.

It is believers who God gives His (Christ's) righteousness. This principle is found in Romans 9 and 2 Corinthians 5.

Christ set aside His glory, not His righteousness.

J
It was a spotless sacrifice when it was "offered." But just as the lamb and scapegoat are transferred the sin of people, so too was our sin laid upon Jesus.

Again, Christ is the whole of the temple/ tabernacle. He is the both the high priest and the sacrifice.

He was the one offered, the scapegoat lead into the wilderness, and the high priest, the furniture, and all that encompassed the tabernacle.

Sin being laid upon, being carried, or some other term, never in the Scriptures means that Christ become polluted, degraded to less than Holy.

The Lamb that was slain at the sacrifice from the time of Adam to the crucifixion was never not pure and innocent. The death of that lamb never caused the lamb to become impure and unworthy, nor was the scapegoat lead out of the camp ever considered as impure and unworthy. They were still qualified as pure and could pass the test given to them to be labeled as such.

Now, if I am wrong in assuming that you have taken such thinking as that Christ became unrighteous in some manner at the crucifixion, then I apologize for assuming wrongly.

 

[Gup20]

1) No, He didn't ( Psalms 111:3,

3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Yes, it does endure... it endures in spite of Christ's death and it endures in us -- former sinners. It endures in Christ in spit of the fact that God forsook Him and separated from Him at the cross because of the sin laid upon Him. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up His righteousness... it just says His righteousness endures forever... it doesn't say where or how or whom has it.

Psalms 119:142,

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Again, I agree, the righteousness endures everlasting. Nothing in this verse says it doesn't get transferred to others.

Jeremiah 23:5,

5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Yet again... still true in my interpretation. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up his eternal righteousness and transferring it to Abraham (and subsequently to Himself and us).

Romans 3:25-26,

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Once again... nothing here prevents us from saying Christ's righteousness was transferred to Abraham and inherited by his spiritual descendants (those with the same faith in the gospel) such as Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30,

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This actually makes more sense if Christ gave up his righteousness and we actually inherit a piece of Him through spiritual kinship.

2 Corinthians 5:21,

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Actually demonstrates the great exchange where Jesus is filled with sin and we are filled with His righteousness.

Hebrews 9:14,

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Again, nothing here precluding transfer... yet if we look at Hebrew laws regarding sacrifices and blood atonement, we do see that the sin is transferred to the sacrifice... so this is actually evidence FOR my interpretation, not against it.

1 Peter 1:19 ).

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Exactly how the spotless lamb the priests would sacrifice would be without blemish until the sin of the nation was transferred to it and it died. Nothing here to support your position, though.

3) No, that is not "Calvinism", it is the Bible.
Our faith is the faith "of Christ"...it originates ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and was given ( Jude 1:3 ) to His saints as a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

The "gift of God" is that "by grace you have been saved" not the mechanism of the gift, faith.

Since you are set on continuing this way of thinking despite my efforts to point you to Scripture, I must now take a step that I am reluctant to take...

Based on Titus 3:10-11, I must reject you as my brother.
Please consider that your views about Christ actually giving up His righteousness are not Scriptural, and are in error.


I wish you well, sir.

Tit 3:9-11 NASB - 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Since we're not talking about The Law, we're talking about Faith, I don't think this applies.

Since all of the theological positions I'm talking about come from Galatians 2-4, maybe you should try this one:

Gal 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

[agedman]

3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Yes, it does endure... it endures in spite of Christ's death and it endures in us -- former sinners. It endures in Christ in spit of the fact that God forsook Him and separated from Him at the cross because of the sin laid upon Him. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up His righteousness... it just says His righteousness endures forever... it doesn't say where or how or whom has it.


Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Again, I agree, the righteousness endures everlasting. Nothing in this verse says it doesn't get transferred to others.


5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Yet again... still true in my interpretation. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up his eternal righteousness and transferring it to Abraham (and subsequently to Himself and us).


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Once again... nothing here prevents us from saying Christ's righteousness was transferred to Abraham and inherited by his spiritual descendants (those with the same faith in the gospel) such as Christ.


30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This actually makes more sense if Christ gave up his righteousness and we actually inherit a piece of Him through spiritual kinship.


21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Actually demonstrates the great exchange where Jesus is filled with sin and we are filled with His righteousness.


14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Again, nothing here precluding transfer... yet if we look at Hebrew laws regarding sacrifices and blood atonement, we do see that the sin is transferred to the sacrifice... so this is actually evidence FOR my interpretation, not against it.


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Exactly how the spotless lamb the priests would sacrifice would be without blemish until the sin of the nation was transferred to it and it died. Nothing here to support your position, though.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

The "gift of God" is that "by grace you have been saved" not the mechanism of the gift, faith.


Tit 3:9-11 NASB - 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Since we're not talking about The Law, we're talking about Faith, I don't think this applies.

Since all of the theological positions I'm talking about come from Galatians 2-4, maybe you should try this one:

Gal 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Wow, I thought I read correctly the previous posts.

You are wrong.

The "anointed one" (Christ) was NEVER unrighteous.

He was and ever will be the member of the Trinity. He is the WORD, the Logos, the very creator and sustainer of all that was ever and what will ever be made.

That you would even consider that such as God (for He is God) to become in some manner unrighteous, or that some transfer of righteousness to a mortal or covenant could take place is purely failed speculation.

Christ is the Alph and omega. He has not beginning and no ending.

Had He separated from righteousness, He could no longer be the alpha and omega.

The Scriptures would then be called into question, for God could not take of Christ's righteousness and impart it to the unrighteous who do not even seek such righteousness (Romans 9).

What you are posting is not merely opinions of error, but are not consistent with the nature and character of God.

That is not good at all.

From where are you constructing such thinking as I have been reading on this thread?

 

[JonC]

3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Yes, it does endure... it endures in spite of Christ's death and it endures in us -- former sinners. It endures in Christ in spit of the fact that God forsook Him and separated from Him at the cross because of the sin laid upon Him. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up His righteousness... it just says His righteousness endures forever... it doesn't say where or how or whom has it.


Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Again, I agree, the righteousness endures everlasting. Nothing in this verse says it doesn't get transferred to others.


5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Yet again... still true in my interpretation. Nothing in this verse precludes Christ giving up his eternal righteousness and transferring it to Abraham (and subsequently to Himself and us).


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Once again... nothing here prevents us from saying Christ's righteousness was transferred to Abraham and inherited by his spiritual descendants (those with the same faith in the gospel) such as Christ.


30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This actually makes more sense if Christ gave up his righteousness and we actually inherit a piece of Him through spiritual kinship.


21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Actually demonstrates the great exchange where Jesus is filled with sin and we are filled with His righteousness.


14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Again, nothing here precluding transfer... yet if we look at Hebrew laws regarding sacrifices and blood atonement, we do see that the sin is transferred to the sacrifice... so this is actually evidence FOR my interpretation, not against it.


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Exactly how the spotless lamb the priests would sacrifice would be without blemish until the sin of the nation was transferred to it and it died. Nothing here to support your position, though.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

The "gift of God" is that "by grace you have been saved" not the mechanism of the gift, faith.


Tit 3:9-11 NASB - 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Since we're not talking about The Law, we're talking about Faith, I don't think this applies.

Since all of the theological positions I'm talking about come from Galatians 2-4, maybe you should try this one:

Gal 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Can you clarify for me (sorry, I'm a bit slow on the uptake) - when you say that Christ "gave up his righteousness" are you implying (or saying) that Christ sinned?

There are different ideas about "became sin for us" and I just need some help understanding what you mean.

Thanks

 

[agedman]

For the readers, let me repost a very important statement of Scriptures found in Romans 9:

30What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
​

Romans 10 continues this with these words:

3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
​

 

[Gup20]

Do you not agree that The Christ was both the high priest and the lamb?

That He was both the tabernacle and the altar?

That He was both the veil and the mercy seat?

Christ was the whole package.

Therefore, He was never "filled with the sin."

A human example is perhaps considering that one can carry the bucket of water, can have it slosh upon that person, but choose not ever be filled with that same water. Christ became the "water toting (bearing) one.

The Scripture states that it was GOD Himself who made Christ (who knew no sin) to be sin on our behalf. (2 Corinthians 5) not that God mad Christ filled with sin on our behalf.

Isa 53:6-12 NASB - 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke [was due?] 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting [Him] to grief; If He would render Himself [as] a guilt offering, He will see [His] offspring, He will prolong [His] days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see [it and] be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

Gal 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”—

2Co 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

This seems pretty straight forward. Christ took our sin upon himself, and we got His righteousness in return.

From some earlier reading in the posts, I am assuming that you are considering that Christ lost that righteousness of God at the crucifixion and then in some manner attained it again?

If so, you would be incorrect.

It is believers who God gives His (Christ's) righteousness. This principle is found in Romans 9 and 2 Corinthians 5.

Christ set aside His glory, not His righteousness.

The reason I say that Jesus inherited righteousness the same way we do is because scripture says He was raised from the dead by the covenant God made with Abraham:

Genesis 17:2 (KJV)
And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,​

Why would God promise Jesus Christ Salvation?

Gal 3:14
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.​

18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Clearly God planned to resurrect Jesus through this covenant of faith. Otherwise, why would God make Jesus this promise ... this "everlasting covenant" that all of Abraham's descendants would inherit the righteousness that Abraham was credited with?

Again, Christ is the whole of the temple/ tabernacle. He is the both the high priest and the sacrifice.

He was the one offered, the scapegoat lead into the wilderness, and the high priest, the furniture, and all that encompassed the tabernacle.

Sin being laid upon, being carried, or some other term, never in the Scriptures means that Christ become polluted, degraded to less than Holy.

The Lamb that was slain at the sacrifice from the time of Adam to the crucifixion was never not pure and innocent. The death of that lamb never caused the lamb to become impure and unworthy, nor was the scapegoat lead out of the camp ever considered as impure and unworthy. They were still qualified as pure and could pass the test given to them to be labeled as such.

Now, if I am wrong in assuming that you have taken such thinking as that Christ became unrighteous in some manner at the crucifixion, then I apologize for assuming wrongly.

Jesus was the ONLY spotless Lamb qualified to have the sin of the world transferred to him. He was the only one righteous. He never sinned. Right up until God forsook him on the cross when the sin of the world separated him from God.

 

[Gup20]

Can you clarify for me (sorry, I'm a bit slow on the uptake) - when you say that Christ "gave up his righteousness" are you implying (or saying) that Christ sinned?

There are different ideas about "became sin for us" and I just need some help understanding what you mean.

Thanks

Think of righteousness as a gold coin. Christ turned in his coin and gave it to Abraham. God promised Abraham that the coin would be an eternal inheritance by all of his descendants... but God meant Abraham's spiritual descendants. I'm not suggesting that Jesus sinned or committed an offense. I'm suggesting that God judged Him for the sin of the world (he became sin, he became a curse, he had our iniquity laid upon him).