Featured Spiritual Death II

The last sentence in your post goes around and ends up no where. You seem to be saying that he has proven his position by scripture and it's some how wrong. It's either right or wrong it can't be both.
MB

 

I was thinking about this conversation last night and the realities of Christ taking on our sin.

One of the best Scriptures that speaks explicitly to that is in 1 Peter:

1 Peter 2:24 (KJV) Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

So, did he/how did He take on the "sins of the world"?

I believe The Scriptures speak of Christ doing something as a result of the sin of the world, in order to have the effects God desires. Namely, reconciliation. That's why He says, whose stripes we are healed. The shame and guilt that separated God and Man was done away with as Christ's death brought healing to mankind. Peace and reconciliation was brought to us through His death. By His stripes our relationship was healed.

And if you break the text down it says Christ's body was afflicted to the point of death so that the guilt and shame of our sins would be dealt with, bringing reconciliation. It says by His stripes, not "by God turning His face from Him..."

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Isaiah 53:10-11 (KJV) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Of course Peter quotes..

Isaiah 53:4-5 (KJV) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

He bore the results of us sinning.

So, Christ bore the guilt of our iniquities and died as a result of our sin, who knew no sin.

The wages of sin is death. Christ never sinned but He took on death and the wages of everyone else who did.

 

I believe this is another aspect of the paradoxes found in Scripture.

Christ was not under the wrath of God. It actually pleased God to bruise Him probably because of Christ's faithful obedience to the will of God. Isaiah said that the pleasure of the Lord would prosper in His hand.

The writer of Hebrews says that Christ endured the cross, despised the shame for the Joy that was set before Him.

We bring in this narrative that God is finding pleasure in the ACT of humiliation and mistreatment. That doesn't sound like my God. My God delights in faithful obedience. It's the same way with trials in our lives. God does not laugh when we get critically hurt in a car accident. He delights in His child when they trust and depend upon Him faithfully, regardless of the circumstance -- Hebrews 11:6.

 

Jon,
Take a closer look at 1 Peter 2:24:

" who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." ( 1 Peter 2:24 )

He bare our sins in His own body on the tree, so that we being dead to sins ( Romans 6:1-2 ) should live unto righteousness ( Galatians 2:19, Colossians 3:3 )

Yes, how did He do that?
" All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." ( Isaiah 53:6 )

Who was reconciled?

Romans 5:11,
2 Corinthians 5:18-19,
Ephesians 2:15-16,
Colossians 1:19-22

By His stripes, who is healed?
Isaiah 53:4-8.

Amen.

There are no paradoxes, my friend... only truths that bear looking into, and Scripture that needs going over, again and again.

May He bless you richly.

 

SOMEONE must take and suffer in themselves the due penalty for our sins, which would be wrath and God and eternal Judgment. Either Jesus bore it all, or else we still do!

 

No, eternal judgment is the white throne judgment and the subsequent lake of fire. There is wrath to come that will be meted out on an unbelieving world. But God wasn't angry with His Son. He was well pleased with His Son. He delights in His Son. Christ took on himself the wages of sin, death. And then God raised Him from the dead to prove His obedience was acceptable. The innocent Lamb of God took on death to be the succourer and giver of Eternal Life. He was punished for our disobedience but not by taking on the wrath of God, but by taking on death.

 

I disagree.

Acts 2:24 says nothing about fear.

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7,8

Suffered unto death. Obedience, with definite article preceding. What obedience did the dying Jesus, even though the very Son, learn?

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, (saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.) Jesus said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Luke 23:46 with Matt. 27:45-48 chronologically inserted.

Suffered unto death and his sufferings began before that.

Also from the other thread.

How could the scapegoat be considered as sacrificed?