Christian Gnosticism - Hidden Treasures?

[JonC]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear: Gnosticism is a cult and always has been a cult for more than 2,000 years. I myself throw it in with the occult because the Gnostic cultist that I have met in Indianapolis, and there are a few, believe that they have secret knowledge and that reminds me of the occult. Gnosticism cannot be rehabilitated. Real Gnostics are virulent opponents of Judaism and Christianity.

If you are correct that authentic Christians call themselves Gnostics, I have to wonder if they know what the word means?

Sorry. I don't think I was clear in my reply.

I am refering to gnosticism (possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters) not Gnosticism (capital "G").

I should have been more careful and used "Christian gnosticism", making sure I used the lower case "g".

Words do have meanings and my error of capitalizing "Gnosticism" indicates the cult whereas gnosticism refers to the charastics to which I am pointing.

Thanks for pointing that out. I do stand corrected on my poor habit of capitalizing first letters willy nilly (I do it with commas too).

 

[JonC]

In my estimation, there are a lot of people who do that, Jon.
Growing up in Baptist churches, I ran across many who, instead of actually reading their Bibles for themselves, just took everything that came out of the pastor's mouth as truth, whether or not he was actually speaking it.

Hardly anyone ever cross-checked the pastor.
I no longer wonder why false teachings get propagated so far, so fast and for so long.

I was that that way when I was a young Christian. It is easy to do, especially when we find a mentor we look up to.

 

[Dave G]

I was that that way when I was a young Christian. It is easy to do, especially when we find a mentor we look up to.

Which shows to me, at least, the vulnerability of babes in Christ.

 

[HankD]

Sorry. I don't think I was clear in my reply.

I am refering to gnosticism (possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters) not Gnosticism (capital "G").

I should have been more careful and used "Christian gnosticism", making sure I used the lower case "g".

Words do have meanings and my error of capitalizing "Gnosticism" indicates the cult whereas gnosticism refers to the charastics to which I am pointing.

Thanks for pointing that out. I do stand corrected on my poor habit of capitalizing first letters willy nilly (I do it with commas too).

In my studies of church history Christian gnosticism contained the idea that the "knowing" of certain factual knowledge about Christ was all that was required for salvation.

Subsequent dalliance and learning how to "talk Jesus" was/is substituted for the true relationship established by the new birth.

So it seems today perhaps many have entered by another way (Someone mentioned Pilgrim's Progress).

Someone (not sure who) has coined the term "Churchianity" for it.
To be sure many that come in that way find the true path (or are found by Him).

 

[JonC]

In my studies of church history Christian gnosticism contained the idea that the "knowing" of certain factual knowledge about Christ was all that was required for salvation.

Subsequent dalliance and learning how to "talk Jesus" was/is substituted for the true relationship established by the new birth.

So it seems today perhaps many have entered by another way (Someone mentioned Pilgrim's Progress).

Someone (not sure who) has coined the term "Churchianity" for it.
To be sure many that come in that way find the true path (or are found by Him).

Interesting. I had not heard "Churchianity" before.

 

[Heretic Hunter]

I have met many who were actually Christians. In context of this thread think we have seen this on the board. When I say "Christian gnosticism" I mean those who rely not on the biblical text but on what they believe the text implies (what they see hidden beneath the text).

Sorry. I don't think I was clear in my reply.

I am refering to gnosticism (possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters) not Gnosticism (capital "G").

I should have been more careful and used "Christian gnosticism", making sure I used the lower case "g".

Words do have meanings and my error of capitalizing "Gnosticism" indicates the cult whereas gnosticism refers to the charastics to which I am pointing.

Thanks for pointing that out. I do stand corrected on my poor habit of capitalizing first letters willy nilly (I do it with commas too).

Hi Jon.

In reading your responses, I would like to ask you, where did you learn the terms "gnostic/gnostism/esoteric knowledge"?

church mouse guy is hitting on all cylinders, but I fear that you may be missing his points,so i hope that you won't mind my joining this conversation in helping to provide some additional information for clarity.

Gnostism (with a capital G or a little g) strictly pertains to the Occult. The Gnostics/Satanists/Witches, of which are of the Illuminati/Freemasonry use the phrase "ancient esoteric mysteries or knowledge" as an overall description of the vast multitude of antichrist doctrines/teachings that they espouse. These antichrist doctrines are of the very same doctrines of both Balaam and the Egyptians (Nicolaitans). They consist of teachings pertaining to images of idols, and all things of the Devil. Their object is to blend all religions together into worship of Baal/Satan. They have what is called the "Masonic Bible", of which they had hi-jacked The Holy Bible a.k.a. KJB 1611 to wrest/pervert the scriptures. They twist the scriptures to deny God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ, to instead preach and teach Satan/Lucifer as their god. This is the Antichrist Movement. The Watchtower Society better known as Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Advenstists, and Mormons are just a few of their Masonic False Prophets. Each of these false prophets, by the practice of gnosticism, have wrested to scriptures to preach and teach "another jesus," "another gospel," and with "another spirit" that is the spirit of antichrist. The "other jesus" that they preach is teach is Satan/Lucifer/Abaddon.

We have been warned of them in 2Timothy 3 (highlighting verse 8) as just as Jannes and Jambres were the magic practicing priests that withstood Moses, these are the same that are enemies of Christ and His Church today. We have received parallel warnings in 2Corinthians 11, 2Peter 2-3, Jude, and in Revelation 2-3

Collectively, all aspects of the Occult are what consist of being Mystery Babylon deceiving the entire world by sorceries.

With this introduction, there is much that needs to be expounded upon, with instruction from The Holy Bible.

Very recently, Jan Markell and Gary Kah discussed several points about this topic on OliveTreeView Ministries, hosted by Jan Markell on American Family Radio.

The broadcast can be listened to and/or downloaded by visiting the website:


En Route to Global Occupation
January 26, 2019

Jan Markell spends the hour with Gary Kah who has been monitoring the "New World Order" for 30 years. This will be Antichrist’s kingdom outlined in the Bible. Who are the major players and how soon might their agenda appear? If it is on the horizon, how late is the hour?

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/understanding-the-times/listen/en-route-to-global-occupation-739297.html

 

[Dave G]

Interesting. I had not heard "Churchianity" before.

From my own perspective:

"Churchianity" = Basically, the culture that has sprung up over the past few centuries that mixes the world and its ways with God and His ways...
Most specifically, it is baptized paganism in all its glory, IMO.

Some call it, " popular Christianity", and it can be found in media on the obvious channels and networks.
It's banner magazine has been, in recent times, one that is easy to guess.
In case you're having trouble figuring it out, here's a clue:
"CT".

It's basically a mish-mash of truth and error that, as a whole, is regarded by the world-at-large as, "Christianity".
False teachings and teachers are not only tolerated, but advanced in as conservative a way as possible...but over the years it has been gathering steam.


To me, the famous mantra of "Churchianity" is, " In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity", which I believe Augustine coined, but I initially agreed with it and now see it as an ecumenical statement.
To me there are no "essentials" ( Matthew 4:4 ), but there is to be charity, in any case ( Colossians 3:14 ).

"Churchianity" has, at its core, this philosophy:

Unity at the expense of truth.



That's my take on it, at least.

 

[Dave G]

In reading your responses, I would like to ask you, where did you learn the terms "gnostic/gnostism/esoteric knowledge"?

HH,

I think you may find, as I did the hard way, that liberal use of bolded text is hard to read for some, and that it could be considered "shouting" by others.
Certain colors are also hard for some to read, like red and green.

A suggestion:
On a white background, colors that stand out but do not hurt the eyes, are dark blue, black, and other dark colors.

Welcome to the board, and may your stay here be edifying.

 

[Heretic Hunter]

HH,

I think you may find, as I did the hard way, that liberal use of bolded text is hard to read for some, and that it could be considered "shouting" by others.
Certain colors are also hard for some to read, like red and green.

A suggestion:
On a white background, colors that stand out but do not hurt the eyes, are dark blue, black, and other dark colors.

Welcome to the board, and may your stay here be edifying.

Thank you Dave. I will make use of the eye friendly colors. Ilike using bold/larger font for those of us that have difficulty straining the eyes to read tiny letters. What may appear to be "shouting" is appearing as good for the visually impaired. It might can be likened to having the CD player on too loud. Some people may think someone is really jamming out to Christian music, rocking the rooftops, but for the hearing impaired, it's trying to get the volume up to the right level to give praise to the Lord.

 

[kyredneck]

Scripture tells us this life is "in Christ" alone.

Where? Specifically.

 

[kyredneck]

I would like to ask you, where did you learn the terms "gnostic/gnostism/esoteric knowledge"?

Methinks JonC is using the term 'euphemistically(?)' in reference to sages of any given established system within Christianity. Reformed Gnostics immediately come to my mind with their established 'gnosis' contained within creeds and confessions and the writings of past reformers, Church fathers, etc.

 

[MB]

Let's make it really simple what condition was Adam in in Genesis 1 31 what condition was he physically what condition was his soul Spirit did he have one that they have any life or was he created spiritually dead answer that question and if he alone was created spiritually dead is that how it's passed all men or was it as it says in Romans death passed upon all men
you assume that it's physical death first you have no scripture that says its physical death at all as a cause but as a result yes spiritual death leads to physical death

It also doesn't say anything about spiritual death.The Word just says Adam will surely die.

The Holy Spirit had not been given to Adam or Eve. It is the indwelling of the Holly Spirit that regenerates men. Adam wasn't as yet an eternal being because if he had been we would have him still alive today. The whole reason he was put out of the garden was so that Adam did not also eat of the tree of life and live for ever in sin.
MB

 

[JonC]

Hi Jon.

In reading your responses, I would like to ask you, where did you learn the terms "gnostic/gnostism/esoteric knowledge"?

church mouse guy is hitting on all cylinders, but I fear that you may be missing his points,so i hope that you won't mind my joining this conversation in helping to provide some additional information for clarity.

Gnostism (with a capital G or a little g) strictly pertains to the Occult. The Gnostics/Satanists/Witches, of which are of the Illuminati/Freemasonry use the phrase "ancient esoteric mysteries or knowledge" as an overall description of the vast multitude of antichrist doctrines/teachings that they espouse. These antichrist doctrines are of the very same doctrines of both Balaam and the Egyptians (Nicolaitans). They consist of teachings pertaining to images of idols, and all things of the Devil. Their object is to blend all religions together into worship of Baal/Satan. They have what is called the "Masonic Bible", of which they had hi-jacked The Holy Bible a.k.a. KJB 1611 to wrest/pervert the scriptures. They twist the scriptures to deny God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ, to instead preach and teach Satan/Lucifer as their god. This is the Antichrist Movement. The Watchtower Society better known as Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Advenstists, and Mormons are just a few of their Masonic False Prophets. Each of these false prophets, by the practice of gnosticism, have wrested to scriptures to preach and teach "another jesus," "another gospel," and with "another spirit" that is the spirit of antichrist. The "other jesus" that they preach is teach is Satan/Lucifer/Abaddon.

We have been warned of them in 2Timothy 3 (highlighting verse 8) as just as Jannes and Jambres were the magic practicing priests that withstood Moses, these are the same that are enemies of Christ and His Church today. We have received parallel warnings in 2Corinthians 11, 2Peter 2-3, Jude, and in Revelation 2-3

Collectively, all aspects of the Occult are what consist of being Mystery Babylon deceiving the entire world by sorceries.

With this introduction, there is much that needs to be expounded upon, with instruction from The Holy Bible.

Very recently, Jan Markell and Gary Kah discussed several points about this topic on OliveTreeView Ministries, hosted by Jan Markell on American Family Radio.

The broadcast can be listened to and/or downloaded by visiting the website:


En Route to Global Occupation
January 26, 2019

Jan Markell spends the hour with Gary Kah who has been monitoring the "New World Order" for 30 years. This will be Antichrist’s kingdom outlined in the Bible. Who are the major players and how soon might their agenda appear? If it is on the horizon, how late is the hour?

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/understanding-the-times/listen/en-route-to-global-occupation-739297.html

Sure. The term “gnostic” literally refers to knowledge. I am using the term associated with Christianity to mean people who rely on things they believe are hidden in Scripture (Bible Code; implied teachings, etc.). There are several books that use the term (William Pae, Leadbetter, to name a couple) and the accusation is sometimes made of Protestants in particular.

Philip makes the case that Gnosticism can be established through the identification of a “gnostic type” and notes that the Gnosticism facing the New Testament Church was often a carry over (or viewed as such) of Greek philosophy.

Gnosticism as a type can be applied to the Christian religion as long as what is obstructed does not obscure the gospel itself.

The Gnostics were sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters. I do not believe that such error negates one’s salvation except that that error deny the gospel. (I believe that one can, for example, be a Freemason….which is a type of Gnosticism…and still be saved).

The definition I am using is “Gnostic – adj; pertaining to knowledge; possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters; (initial capital letter) pertaining to or characteristic of the Gnostics.”

What I am saying is that some hold views that are “gnostic” in type. We all know there was not one “Gnostic religion”. There were many sects that sprang up within Christianity. I am saying that some Christians are very similar in type to these people except their teachings have yet to extend beyond the boards of what it means to be “Christian”.

 

[JonC]

Where? Specifically.

When Christ says that He is the Way and the Truth and the Life. If no man comes to the Father but by Christ and Christ is that Life then I believe it reasonable to believe that there is not another "spiritual life" out there. Add to this that one must be born of the Spirit, Paul's words of "Christ in us", Ezekiel's words of God putting His Spirit in us, and the necessity to be "baptized" in Jesus, to die with Him.

That said, I am OK with other people believing there is spiritual life outside of Christ. I would not join their church but I could get along with them.

 

[Dave G]

Scripture tells us this life is "in Christ" alone.

Where? Specifically.

Well, I cannot answer for Jon, but I see it here:

John 11:25
John 17:3
Romans 6:11
Galatians 2:20
Colossians 3:3-4

...among others.

As for some of the other things he has stated:

Scripture teaches that spiritual death never occurred.

I see "spiritual death" happening in the contents of Romans 1.
However...

Strictly speaking, since spiritual life is "in Christ" ( John 11:25 ), then Adam was never "alive", if he was not a believer as Abel was ( Hebrews 11:4, 1 John 3:12 ).
As I see it, in the eternal sense, anyone outside the body of Christ is not, nor ever will be, spiritually alive.

To me, this is one of the finer points of God's word...
"Did Adam have spiritual life?"


Good question, and one my acceptance of a brother or sister would not hinge on.
In fact, my acceptance of a brother or sister hinges on whether or not I see the grace of God in them, not their current understanding of Scripture.


I can say this:

Jon's statements have caused me to re-think my conclusions on this subject, and to dig deeper into Scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

When Christ says that He is the Way and the Truth and the Life. If no man comes to the Father but by Christ and Christ is that Life then I believe it reasonable to believe that there is not another "spiritual life" out there. Add to this that one must be born of the Spirit, Paul's words of "Christ in us", Ezekiel's words of God putting His Spirit in us, and the necessity to be "baptized" in Jesus, to die with Him.

That said, I am OK with other people believing there is spiritual life outside of Christ. I would not join their church but I could get along with them.

I agree with you but where do you find that word 'alone' ?

Lol, no doubt 'it's implied', but 'where is it written'?

 

[kyredneck]

I can’t remember how many preachers I’ve heard insist they may be wrong and the congregation needed to search Scripture.

Amen! Nearly every Primitive Baptist sermon I've ever heard contains that very humility within it, oftentimes expressed exactly that way.

 

[JonC]

I agree with you but where do you find that word 'alone' ?

Lol, no doubt 'it's implied', but 'where is it written'?

It is explained in the words (no man comes to the Father but by me). "Alone" is just a shorter way of saying there is no othet way.

 

[Dave G]

"Alone" is just a shorter way of saying there is no othet way.

Sola?

 

[JonC]

Sola?

Yes. Hans Solo.