Featured Christian Gnosticism - Hidden Treasures?

Are you referring to when you say Calvinists are "reading something into the text" that is not there?

 

1)in the DAY you eat of it, dying you will surely die.....MB, something died that day and then assured his physical death.
Biblicist has explained this at length.
2) Adam had a living spirit that was able to communicate and fellowship with God.
Why would he need regeneration ?
3) Adam as all men are was eternal.
We either live in the realm of eternal life,
Or eternal death.

 

Adam was in spiritual relationship with God before the fall in a perfect fashion, as the promise of the Messiah was not given nor needed until after he fell, so something happened to his spiritual condition!

 

Icon His explanation is not from scripture. Adam did not die spiritually before his physical death. Adam with out the tree of life would not live for eternity. No where is it seen in scripture that Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of life and after he sinned God put Adam out of the garden to keep him from eating it's fruit and living for ever. We have to have the Holy Spirit living inside of us for eternal life.
MB

 

Adam was in a spiritual state with God by virtue of God creating Him and calling Him good and in His very Image! He died spiritually to God, severed his relationship connection, as soon as he sinned!

 

You have no scripture to back up your claims neither does Biblicist. I see no reason to believe you. I've shown scriptures to back up what I am saying. I have even shown where Adam and Cain both walked and talked with God after sinning and they spoke with God something your doctrine says is impossible when spiritually dead. No where does scripture say that Adam had eternal life this is only assumed.
The term "spiritually dead" is a metaphor and men being unable to hear or understand because spiritual death is false.
MB

 

If we are not effected by the fall of Adam ourselves, and not spiritually dead in our sins, why must we be born again then?

 

"MB,
Hello MB,

Several men responded as to the entry of spiritual death, Reformed posted this;

Biblicist offered this;

.
gen.2
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The only death that day was spiritual death, physically he lived for many years after

 

Most see it,ie,spiritual death with physical to follow....dying.
..thou shalt surely die.
Moses was not there JonC....so his writing was given to set up the rest of biblical truth.
Moses was not given to be mysterious but instructive.

You say it does not speak of spiritual death,and yet it does not use the word physical either. It does not ignore the spirit of man as if it is not part of the man as your posts offer.
That is why you struggle with this truth where most everyone has no struggle
Because others you read or quote offer other ideas does not make those ideas valid.
Your attempt to suggest nothing died that day is a denial of....in the day you eat, dying, thou shalt surely die.

 

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves aprons. Gen 3

Their eyes opened and they died.

9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; Ro 7

 

I did not suggest what Moses wrote was subjective. In fact just the opposite. God gave us all we need to know about the fall of mankind

Body soul and spirit died in that day in Adam.
I will remain ignorant of all the failed theories that you relish as I do not want to keep falsehoods in my head.
Roman's 16:17-20 give me instructions on this.
That some person somewhere comes up with a novelty does not mean it is valid.
You like that kind of thing and hold onto it.
I look at some of those writings but reject them right away when they cross the line.
I have enough to do to read solid material and grow, rather then to let strange fire occupy any space in my head.
I read enough on the cults to refute them, but I do not spend extra time exegeting the false book of nephi.
The other day you posted something about how pagans view the temple....I go right past that as their view has nothing to do with my teaching lost persons with Gods truth.

 

[QUOTE="JonC,

If you were to do what I advocated (the exercise you seem to find silly) and erase the points of your theology that are not actually stated in scripture, how much would be left? Very little I suspect.[/QUOTE]
Put the scriptures we offer on the right side, and your theories and speculations on the left and you would be erasing the whole left side of the board,lol

 

You also have to conclude that something happened to Adam, as he did not need to have a savior before the fall, was in harmony relationship withy God, but after the fall, broken fellowship and now the need for a savior!

 

At one time, yes. I held your view. And that was exactly what I did.[/QUOTE]
Those views you once held would be the majority of Reformed and Baptists of History!