Featured Adam's Death and Person

Two questions. First how do you conclude that by "body" he is not speaking of a physcial body of the resurrection? The second, why do you suppose by "body" he is must referring to body, soul and spirit to mean the "body?" Now I have no disagreement that the resurrected person is made up of their body, soul (person) and spirit. So your argument does not seem to make sense to me.

Adam's body was alive by the soul and spirit through blood. Christ's resurrected body by was made alive by the Holy Spirit.

 

I agree,I believe what he is talking about here is a perfect body as heavenly. Meaning there is no defects as in our current physical bodies. No sin effects. absolutely perfect.
MB

 

Our soul when we are born again, and our body when we receive our promised adoption (1 John 3:2; Romans 8:23).

Agreed.

 

Jon,

I think it prudent to dovetail what it is to be "dead in trespasses and sins" into your thread here.
If we, as believers, concentrate solely on Genesis 3 and those Scriptures that pertain to physical death, I believe that we are only dealing with part of what really happened in the Fall and to mankind as a race, since then.

I refer to passages like Romans chapters 1-3, John 3:18-20, and many others...such as what is found in the Psalms and Proverbs.

What really was the nature of Adam's "death", and what Scriptures shed light on what happened at ( what I see as ) more than one level to us, as a race?
Physical death seems the most obvious, and is easily addressed by God's word, as I see it.



May God bless you greatly, sir.

 

Simply unbelievable!!!!!! There is so much error here, where does one even start to correct this mess? Error produces multiple errors.

First, you say there is no relationship between spiritual death and physical death as you demand "death" in Romans 5:12 that entered the world by one man due to one sin which was passed to all mankind is merely and only physical death.

That means that PHYSICAL death is the only consequence of sin and condemnation spoken about in Romans 5:13-19 because that is the only kind of death Paul describes to be the consequence of judgement upon sin is physical death because that is the only death first introduced which is continud to be referred to in verses 13-19.

So, this interpretation of "death" in Romans 5:12 excludes not merely spiritual death, but the second death to be inclusive in that "death." That interpretation is absolutely cultic and so far reaching that it turns Biblical soteriology not only upside down but totally repudiates the very foundations of Biblical soteriology and is more akin to SDA and JW soteriology.

Jon, if you deny that "spiritual death" and "second death" are not inclusive in the "death" of Romans 5:12 you have begun steps toward cultic Christianity. Why? Because it is that "death" in v. 12 is the ONLY grounds for condemnation for sin in verses 13-19 - the ONLY grounds. It is the only stated consequences for condemnation of sin.

If, you continue to contend that "death' in Romans 5:12 is only physical death, I for one, will drop out of this conversation altogether as that is so absurd and antibiblical in nature that it can only lead to more error and cultic types of Christianity.

 

". . . (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. . . ." -- Romans 5:13-14 . . . .
The context is talking about physical death.

 

Lol.

Adam.

Created by a special act of God on the 6th Day. Whereas all other things having life God called upon waters and the earth to bring forth, God actively gathered the dust and formed the man, then breathed the breath of life into his nostrils.

This is not said of any other living creature.

There is a marked difference between the life in an animal and the life in a man. Adam was given the spirit of life, and he became a living soul. So Adam is created and He has life. But he is not born of God. He is not a partaker of the divine nature.

He made Eve from Adam's rib. She gets her life and body from Adam.

That doesn't mean they don't have spiritual life. It's just not divine.

They were good, and innocent, and God walked and talked with them.

They were made good, but they were not made incorruptible. Again, they are not born God, neither are they partakers of the divine nature as Christians are.

So something happens that corrupts them, and as a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, they sin, and they are now dead in trespass and sin (which is what people mean when they say they died spiritually.)

In Redemption, though, we are not restored to Adam's first estate. We're born God. We are partakers of the divine nature, and as such, cannot be corrupted, or die.

 

Romans 5:12 says that "death" entered the world. It does not say PARTS of death entered. It does not says PARTS of death was passed down. The Second death is death. Spiritual deadness is death. Material separation from the immaterial aspect is death. All three are interrelated and inclusive in "death."

Your interpretation of Romans 5:12 denies spiritual deadness and Second death are consequences of sin and therefore denies any just basis for any human to be brought under either as the very same "death" in Romans 5:12 is the condemnation due to sin - due to sin. Just as Ephesians 2:1 is" dead IN TRESSPASSES and SINS. Just as the Second death is due to sin. Just as physical death is due to sin. Your theory denies any relationship of "spiritual death" and Second death with sin and thus have no just basis for human conditions.

You dont understand the Biblical implications of death - ultimately is SEPARATION. Physical death is separation of material from immaterial. The Second death is separation of the whole man from God in Gehenna. Spiritual death is a STATE OF SPIRITUAL separation from God, thus the STATE OF SIN. This state described in Ephesians 2:1-3, 12-13, 4:18-19.

 

He wasn't EXCEPT in his own Jewish self-righteous mind which was controlled by His Jewish view of self-justification by law keeping. He is talking about before the Holy Spirit used the tenth commandment to SLAY him because prior to that he thought he was "blameless" according to the Law (Philip. 3:4-6). Like every self-righteous Jew, he thought he kept the law and therefore could not fall under the condemnation of the law. But Jesus corrected this kind of thinking in Matthew 5:21-46 demonstrating that the Law's sphere is not merely EXTERNAL as the self-right Saul of Tarsus was taught to believe.

Your interpretation of Romans 5:12 has DESTROYED an just basis for anyone to be "dead" spiritually or to be justly cast into Gehenna.

 

No! You simply do not understand the scope of death. Being "dead IN TRESSPASSES AND SINS" is what Jesus means by "BEING evil" (Mt.12:32). It is a STATE or CONDITION of spiritual death. It is a CONDITION of "BEING alienated from the life of God." It is the condition of "BEING passed all feeling" (Eph. 4:19). It is the CONDITION of "BEING given over unto.....all uncleaness." It is the condition of BEING "darkened" in state of mind. It is the condition of being "children of disobedience." It is the condition of BEING "by NATURE the children of wrath." This is NOT a PHYSICAL but a SPIRITUAL CONDITION. Every man, woman and child is BORN INTO THIS WORLD IN THAT SPIRITUAL CONDITION - BEING DEAD in tresspasses and sins and that is not PHYSICAL DEATH AND THAT IS NOT SECOND DEATH. Your view denies even the need for new birth and denies any just grounds for second death.

In direct contrast to this SPIRITUAL CONDITION of being "dead IN TRESSPASSES AND SINS" is the spiritual condition of Adam prior to the fall. Prior to the fall there was no physical death. There was no spiritual condition of being evil, being alienated from the life of God, being children of disobedience, being past feeling, being in a darkened state or being given over to all uncleaness.

Adam was created differently than all other biological living things. Adam received his "lives" (Heb. plural) DIRECTLY FROM GOD in union with the life of God. He was created in an "UPRIGHT" mutable spiritual condition, he was created being mutably righteous, being mutably holy, being mutably enlightened in mind, being by nature a mutable son of God (Lk. 2:38). He is the only human being that TRANSITIONED between BEING UPRIGHT unto BEING EVIL by nature, being a child of disobedience, being alienated from the life of God, being dead in tresspasses and sins.

Do you believe Ephesians 2:1-3, 4:18-19 described Adam at the moment he sinned? Your theory would logically have to deny that he BECAME "dead in tresspasses and sins" because that would demand prior to being "dead" in that manner he was not in a condition of deadness in tresspasses and sins that in a LIVING CONDITION in exact opposite terms of being evil, being alienated from the life of God, being past feeling, being in a darkened state of mind, being given over unto all uncleaness.

Your view totally repudiates the very nature of the fall and thus repudiates the very spiritual nature of death and salvation. It is utter cultic.

 

No! Being "DEAD in tresspasses and sins" is not physical death and it is not the Second death because those thus "dead in tresspasses and sins" were not physically dead and not in the lake of fire. It is a SPIRITUAL STATE or CONDITION OF THEIR IMMATERIAL NATURE (SPIRITUAL) of being opposite to the state of spiritual life.

Being "DEAD in tresspasses and sins" is a SPIRITUAL STATE/CONDITION of the immaterial part of man which is SPIRITUAL not materialistic/physical.

Being "DEAD in tresspasses and sins" PRECEDES physical and second death which are the consequences of this SPIRITUAL CONDITION.

The only human being that came into existence in a IMMATERIAL/SPIRITUAL condition OPPOSITE to being "dead in tresspasses and sins" was Adam. The opposite state of being SPIRITUALLY "dead in tresspasses and sins" "being past feeling" "being evil" by nature the children of disobedience and wrath is being SPIRITUALLY in union with God (mutable) being "upright" etc. as Adam received his LIVES (Heb. plural) directly from the very being of God.

The only human being that has TRANSITIONED between an IMMATERIAL/SPIRITUAL state of mutable conditional LIFE unto a SPIRITUAL/IMMATERIAL state of "dead in tresspasses and sins" is Adam. It is that transition point that justifies us being physically born into this world at the moment of conception in a SPIRITUAL CONDITION of tresspasses and sins, as children of disobedience, children of wrath, children of Satan (Jn. 8:44-45) BEING EVIL, being passed feeling, being "given unto all...uncleaness" and these are not PHYSICAL attributes but SPIRITUAL. This is not physical or second death but SPIRITUAL DEATH as a state and condition.

 

No child of Adam is born into this world in a state of belief but in a state of unbelief. When you claim that sin only brought into this world PHYSICAL and SECOND DEATH then you have repudiated any just cause for the DEPRAVED CONDITION OF THE IMMATERIAL MAN (spirit, heart, mind, will) which is being SPIRITUAL "DEAD in tresspasses and sins" and "being evil" by nature and none of this is speaking of the state or condition of his PHYSICAL body or PHYSICAL or SECOND death. This is speaking of the IMMATERIAL/SPIRITUAL state of man.

The IMMATERIAL aspect of human nature is SPIRITUAL and that is what is "alienated from the life of God" and is a spiritual condition of "being evil" "being past feeling" and "given over unto...all uncleaness" etc.

Satan works "in" his children of disobedience/wrath as much as God works "in" his children (Eph. 2:2; 4:1). Man is created with a "spirit and soul" and his "spirit" is his capacity to commune and operate in the spirit world and lost people can commune with Satan, and some more than others can grow in that spirituality.

When you claim Death only refers to physical and Second death you have denied any SPIRITUAL CONDITION of the human nature and thus any SPIRITUAL NATURE that needs to be brought into union with God's spirit. If not SPIRITUAL NATURE/CONDITION/STATE exists in unregenerated man then the only salvation needed is PHYSICAL salvation from physical death and from a future physical lake of fire.

If you admit unregnerate man as a SPIRITUAL NATURE that is "alienated from the life of God" that is being "DEAD in tresspasses and sins" because tresspasses and sins is what "alienated from the life of God" or separated them SPIRITUALLY from God (Isa.59:1-2) and the only possible POINT of this alienation is Romans 5:12 and that one sin by that one man thus inclusive of "death" that entered into this world at that point in time within human nature, not merely physical and secon death but SPIRITUAL death.

 

It was because of the spiritual death of Adam that they were removed from the garden (Genesis 3:22) to prevent them from living forever in a sinful fallen state.