Dungeon & Dragons Bible Study?

[MartyF]

I am not going to respond to his inane post other than in a general sense. He put words in my mouth. Shame on him.

Really?! Playing the victim card?

I thought only millennials did that. I guess they had to learn it from someone. It’s a great way to avoid having to deal with an arguement you are losing.

Lets start with what you said.

It is evil and those who play it may not become involved in a cult but it teaches and encourages the worship of God's other than the one true and living God. I could go on.

“It is evil” and “it teaches and encourages the worship of God’s [sic] other than the one true and living God.”

This is what you are pushing on Weston Weast. You are claiming that this Christian is encouraging others to partipate in “evil” and “teaching the worship of God’s [sic] other than the one true and living God”. I’m sorry but this sounds like something right up there with sleeping with your step-mother. You’re making a very serious charge against another Christian.

“I could go on”

At best you were going to give some more personal experiences. At worst, you had nothing and were willing to condemn other Christians on nothing. So I prompted you to provide more information with an obviously hyperbolic statement.

But you ignore everything and claim undeserved victim status.

How very millennial of you.

 

[John of Japan]

Do we have to use Wikipedia as a source? Our college students are not allowed to on their research papers. It's full of suspect, contrary, and downright wrong information. Proven scholars can be overruled by rank amateurs. We do allow the students to look there for direction, but not for information, or we take off points.

 

[Jerome]

Another problem is the obsessiveness D&D tends to foster:

I was heavily into D&D during my high school years.

As someone who was heavily invested in the game as a teen...

addiction

Why is that?

Southern Baptist ethicist Russell Moore noted the issue with obsession several years ago:

Dungeons and Dragons and Doctrinal Debate - Russell Moore

Remember those Dungeons and Dragons people back in junior high school? Well, they grew up, got saved, and are now debating Calvinism

The Dungeons and Dragons clubs came to mind because those guys, at least in my junior high school, seemed to be obsessed....D&D became their identity....a personal obsession. The win or loss of my team is a personal victory, because it is totemic of who I am.

 

[John of Japan]

Hello,

I didn’t realize just how little many people may have known about this. I assumed most people knew.

Most of the traditions and rituals practice during Christmas and Easter are pagan. (The idea of the “spirit of Christmas” and many other Christmas traditions and charity come from Charles Dickens.) The evergreen tree and giving gifts to children are pagan rituals during the winter solstace. In early Christianity, the idea of celebrating the birthday of Christ was considered anathema.

Saturnalia - Wikipedia
https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas-trees

https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas-trees
Um, no. Wikipedia is not a good source for these matters. Who wrote this? What qualifications did he/she have to pontificate? When there is no author listed, modern academia rejects the source. But at least Wikipedia footnotes things so one can check the sources. History.com does not have either author or sources listed. That's a huge no-no if you are writing a paper for a class of mine. You might lose a whole grade point on your paper.

Eggs during the celebration of spring equinox for Ishtar. The egg-laying rabbit comes from pagan legend of the goddess Ostara whom the holiday is named after.

The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter

Again, a lousy source. This webpage doesn't even have an "About Us" page so we tell who the website represents. And no authors listed for the articles, and no sourcing (footnotes, etc.). I wouldn't trust it for five seconds.

Did I just kill Santa Claus for you? Just joking. In my opinion, the way to respond to this is not to stick your head in the sand and deny all pagan connections in these holdays. Unfortunately, this is the reaction of many Christians. I suggest a different stance.

The pagan religions have been co-opted. Although the trappings are there, no one actually puts any belief into the holday. The rituals involving orgies and the such are gone and the rituals promoting family and children have been kept. No children are converting to the pagan worship of Saturn or Ostara. I just don’t see the threat to Christianity.

Santa Claus was never alive for me--except for Saint Nicholas, who was said to have slapped Arius the heretic. My kind of man!

But seriously, the idea that Christmas and Eater were from those heathen festivals is only a theory. Wikipedia (with all its faults) mentioned a more likely scenario, that Christians adopted a Christian holiday to counteract the attraction of the pagan holiday, holding it at the same time. This is something that happens on mission fields all over the world even nowadays. Many good churches in Japan have alternate gatherings (often camp) in August at the time of the heathen Bon Festival, which celebrates the idea that souls come back from Hell for one day a year, so they must put out Japanese lanterns so the souls can see their way (don't look behind you!), and then entertain them with dances, music and snacks.

 

[MartyF]

Um, no. Wikipedia is not a good source for these matters. Who wrote this? What qualifications did he/she have to pontificate? When there is no author listed, modern academia rejects the source. But at least Wikipedia footnotes things so one can check the sources. History.com does not have either author or sources listed. That's a huge no-no if you are writing a paper for a class of mine. You might lose a whole grade point on your paper.


Again, a lousy source. This webpage doesn't even have an "About Us" page so we tell who the website represents. And no authors listed for the articles, and no sourcing (footnotes, etc.). I wouldn't trust it for five seconds.


Santa Claus was never alive for me--except for Saint Nicholas, who was said to have slapped Arius the heretic. My kind of man!

But seriously, the idea that Christmas and Eater were from those heathen festivals is only a theory. Wikipedia (with all its faults) mentioned a more likely scenario, that Christians adopted a Christian holiday to counteract the attraction of the pagan holiday, holding it at the same time. This is something that happens on mission fields all over the world even nowadays. Many good churches in Japan have alternate gatherings (often camp) in August at the time of the heathen Bon Festival, which celebrates the idea that souls come back from Hell for one day a year, so they must put out Japanese lanterns so the souls can see their way (don't look behind you!), and then entertain them with dances, music and snacks.

First, you need to realize that this was not written for you. It was written for someone who knew nothing about the subject. Tertiary sources are fine for this.

"the idea that Christmas and Eater were from those heathen festivals is only a theory" - So you agree that it is a valid theory.

So, what are we arguing about? Origin? Or similarity of the holiday to the pagan religions? Choice of dates? What?

You're not writing coherently enough for me to understand exactly what you are arguing about. Take a breath and take some time to state your points. We may already agree on some points.

And remember, I'm not writing a paper for you and and I will not treat you like a superior.

 

[Revmitchell]

Um, no. Wikipedia is not a good source for these matters. Who wrote this? What qualifications did he/she have to pontificate? When there is no author listed, modern academia rejects the source. But at least Wikipedia footnotes things so one can check the sources. History.com does not have either author or sources listed. That's a huge no-no if you are writing a paper for a class of mine. You might lose a whole grade point on your paper.


Again, a lousy source. This webpage doesn't even have an "About Us" page so we tell who the website represents. And no authors listed for the articles, and no sourcing (footnotes, etc.). I wouldn't trust it for five seconds.


Santa Claus was never alive for me--except for Saint Nicholas, who was said to have slapped Arius the heretic. My kind of man!

But seriously, the idea that Christmas and Eater were from those heathen festivals is only a theory. Wikipedia (with all its faults) mentioned a more likely scenario, that Christians adopted a Christian holiday to counteract the attraction of the pagan holiday, holding it at the same time. This is something that happens on mission fields all over the world even nowadays. Many good churches in Japan have alternate gatherings (often camp) in August at the time of the heathen Bon Festival, which celebrates the idea that souls come back from Hell for one day a year, so they must put out Japanese lanterns so the souls can see their way (don't look behind you!), and then entertain them with dances, music and snacks.

When one is desperate to create a narrative but has no solid support for it I guess any source will do. Thanks for your clear and coherent post.

 

[Revmitchell]

Really?! Playing the victim card?

I thought only millennials did that. I guess they had to learn it from someone. It’s a great way to avoid having to deal with an arguement you are losing.

Lets start with what you said.



“It is evil” and “it teaches and encourages the worship of God’s [sic] other than the one true and living God.”

This is what you are pushing on Weston Weast. You are claiming that this Christian is encouraging others to partipate in “evil” and “teaching the worship of God’s [sic] other than the one true and living God”. I’m sorry but this sounds like something right up there with sleeping with your step-mother. You’re making a very serious charge against another Christian.

“I could go on”

At best you were going to give some more personal experiences. At worst, you had nothing and were willing to condemn other Christians on nothing. So I prompted you to provide more information with an obviously hyperbolic statement.

But you ignore everything and claim undeserved victim status.

How very millennial of you.

Your post is full of logical fallacies:

1. Strawman
2. tu quoque


When you fix your errors of logic let me know and I will be glad to address your concerns further.

 

[John of Japan]

First, you need to realize that this was not written for you. It was written for someone who knew nothing about the subject. Tertiary sources are fine for this.

But even the BB requires sourcing.

"the idea that Christmas and Eater were from those heathen festivals is only a theory" - So you agree that it is a valid theory.

All theories are valid to one extent to another. This one is completely unproven by anything but coincidence.

So, what are we arguing about? Origin? Or similarity of the holiday to the pagan religions? Choice of dates? What?

You're not writing coherently enough for me to understand exactly what you are arguing about. Take a breath and take some time to state your points. We may already agree on some points.

I think you were arguing about D&D. I only wanted to add some balance to your accusations against Christmas and Eater (sic--speaking of coherency).

Carry on about D&D.

And remember, I'm not writing a paper for you and and I will not treat you like a superior.

I don't think of you as an inferior--never meant to insinuate that. (I may have a superior education--don't know--but that's another issue.) But if you are quite happy with inferior sources, that's your business.... But for reasons already stated, your sources are all unreliable.

 

[Jerome]

I'm not writing a paper for you and and I will not treat you like a superior.

Enough with the adding of sic to others' posts!
Usually it's Rippon doing that tiresome schoolmarm stuff:

Lets start with what you said.

“It is evil” and “it teaches and encourages the worship of God’s [sic] other than the one true and living God.”

 

[MartyF]

Enough with the adding sic to others' posts!
Usually it's Rippon doing that tiresome schoolmarm stuff:

Adding [sic] is completely appropriate with those who are saying they are being taken out of context or misquoted.

I am not Rippon. I do not know who he is.

I am not the one to say another group of Christians I have not met is doing evil while insisting on not providing any evidence to support the claim.

 

[MartyF]

But even the BB requires sourcing.

What is BB?

 

[MartyF]

But even the BB requires sourcing.

What is BB?

If you mean Baptist Board, I have not seen any rules regarding sources and would gladly follow them if you point them out.

 

[John of Japan]

What is BB?

Um, "Baptist Board." Read the rules.

 

[John of Japan]

If you mean Baptist Board, I have not seen any rules regarding sources and would gladly follow them if you point them out.

The rules are against plagiarism. I don't think you have done that, but the type of websites you have sourced sometimes do. They are inferior sources of information.

 

[John of Japan]

Enough with the adding of sic to others' posts!
Usually it's Rippon doing that tiresome schoolmarm stuff:

I used "sic" my own self, but it was in answer to Marty's charge that I was incoherent--he was talking about some holiday named "Eater".

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Rippon is not here any more due to some name-calling he did. I miss his insults--NOT!

 

[MartyF]

Your post is full of logical fallacies:

1. Strawman
2. tu quoque


When you fix your errors of logic let me know and I will be glad to address your concerns further.

1. Definition of STRAW MAN

There is no straw man. Weston is a real person. It's what this thread is all about. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just completely misunderstood you.

Just say "Weston organizing Bible Studies with two hours of D&D played afterward is not evil." and I will fully and completely apologize about everything I've written to you in this thread. Because if you say this, then I did completely misunderstand you.

2. Definition of TU QUOQUE

First, it has nothing to do with logic. Second, it implies that I was dodging or evading some failure of my own. I did not. I specifically mentioned my rhetorical hyperbole. Everyone knew it was hyperbole and no one thought what I mentioned actually happened. You were quoted in full and everyone could see that you did not say that.

 

[MartyF]

The rules are against plagiarism. I don't think you have done that, but the type of websites you have sourced sometimes do. They are inferior sources of information.

I will agree that they aren't great - most free sources aren't. I don't think there was any plagiarism.

That being said, on this thread, you are walking through a garbage dump pointing out the trash.

 

[Revmitchell]

1. Definition of STRAW MAN

There is no straw man. Weston is a real person.

This shows you do not yet understand what a strawman is.

2. Definition of TU QUOQUE

First, it has nothing to do with logic. Second, it implies that I was dodging or evading some failure of my own. I did not. I specifically mentioned my rhetorical hyperbole. Everyone knew it was hyperbole and no one thought what I mentioned actually happened. You were quoted in full and everyone could see that you did not say that.

Ditto

 

[MartyF]

Another problem is the obsessiveness D&D tends to foster:

Why is that?

Southern Baptist ethicist Russell Moore noted the issue with obsession several years ago:

Dungeons and Dragons and Doctrinal Debate - Russell Moore

Internet video games of all types are addictive. They were literally made to be addictive. People are whining about my adding links, so I will just simple say to do a web search on "video game addiction". Tons to read about.

I will agree that video game addiction is a problem.

However, D&D addiction is laughable. It doesn't exist. People drop it just as easily as they pick it up.

I have not seen D&D obsession. Just look at this forum. All the people claiming to have played D&D and not one even tiny bit of obsession. Russell Moore saw some teenagers talking about D&D and concluded it was an obsession. Once again, another unverifiable personal experience.

In my opinion, Russell chose an easy target because identifying a real obsession people have - FOOTBALL - might have gotten him into trouble.

Even in ancient times, sports were what people obsessed about.

 

[MartyF]

This shows you do not yet understand what a strawman is.
Ditto

Very well. We disagree and are at an impasse.