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Salvation Formula
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Yes I do not believe election is individual and the Bible does not say that it is. Prove me wrong if you can.
The Bible does not say we are Baptized in to Christ that is not in the Bible. Baptism is not required to be in Christ only Salvation can place us there. We are saved by Grace through faith
I do not believe in your revealing grace. What is it suppose to reveal? I was brought up in a Christian home. I was taught about Jesus from a very young age. Nothing about Salvation was ever hidden from me. that needed to be revealed..
"Revealing Grace + Repentance + Faith + Election + Spiritual Baptism + Conversion + Indwelling = Salvation + Good Works"
The only thing above that is required on our part for Salvation is to believe or have Faith Act 16 31
MB
Non answer, a yes or no is needed.
Hi MB, I already have proved we are individually chosen, James 2:5, 1 Peter 2_9-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 1 Cor. 1:26-30. The individuals had characteristics concerning the world's value system, concerning faith, and concerning devotion to God. People chosen before the world was created would no knowledge of the world's value system, Christ's sacrifice for their sins, or have a love of God because Christ died for them. Now a time travel theology, God foresaw their creation, foresaw Christ dying, foresaw the promise to those who love God, and so forth and so on. If a person believes in that much modification of that many verses, their is nothing I can say.
As far as being baptized spiritually into Christ, read Romans 6:3-7/
As far as being baptized spiritually into Christ, read Romans 6:3-7/
Yet another denial, and failure to address the questions.''
You indicated you did not believe we are spiritually baptized into Christ. I supported that fact with Romans 6:3-7.
You claimed none of the verses (James 2:5 etc) spoke of individual election. But did not address the timing of their election, after they had lived without mercy.
And you did not dispute this fact: Now in time travel theology, God foresaw their creation, foresaw Christ dying, foresaw the promise to those who love God, foresaw they would be poor to the word, and so forth and so on. If a person believes in that much modification of that many verses, there is nothing I can say.
You indicated you did not believe we are spiritually baptized into Christ. I supported that fact with Romans 6:3-7.
You claimed none of the verses (James 2:5 etc) spoke of individual election. But did not address the timing of their election, after they had lived without mercy.
And you did not dispute this fact: Now in time travel theology, God foresaw their creation, foresaw Christ dying, foresaw the promise to those who love God, foresaw they would be poor to the word, and so forth and so on. If a person believes in that much modification of that many verses, there is nothing I can say.
Speaking about your self aren't you. This below is not speaking about individual election because there is no such thing. There is no baptism that is part of Salvation.
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren; did not God choose them that are poor as to the world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?
Notice that God choose them. That is plural my friend. not individual.
MB
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No, we are chosen (2 Thess. 2:13) through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. Therefore faith precedes election. Romans 5:2, faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand.
No, yet again 1 Peter 1:1-2. the message is we are chosen by being set apart into Christ to obey Jesus and be sprinkled with His blood (forgiven and made righteous).
Does God credit individual faith to be righteousness or how are our individual faiths credited corporately. Romans 4:5
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Still no answer! Do you deny individual election? Yes or No.
I stated God corporately elected (Ephesians 1:4)those the redeemer would redeem as the target group of His redemption plan... AND... God individually elects each person whose faith He credits as righteousness, Romans 4:5.
How did we live without mercy? Your view has been demonstrated unbiblical by 1 Peter 2:9-10.
[/QUOTE]
By the numbers:
1) We are chosen individually in time during our lifetime after we have lived without mercy.
2) 1 Peter 1:1-2 refers to being chosen by the sanctifying work of the Spirit to set individuals apart in Christ to obey Jesus and be sprinkled with His blood. Just read it folks.
3) Romans 4:5; 23: God credits our worthless, merit-less faith as righteousness, so the idea that we do something to merit salvation is a strawman argument.
So you believe in our individual election for salvation. When do you believe that occurs?
Second, no a target group is not made up of individuals, that would be a chosen group. If I am designing a sales plan for high school kids, my target group is corporate, not individual.
Let's address the "us" in Ephesians 1:4. Are they those chosen corporately before creation, or does the us refer to people who have set apart spiritually and alive at the time of the letter? The us refers to the individuals who have been saved. These individuals had been chosen twice, once before creation corporately, when the redemption plan blessing was formulated, and again individually when their faith was credited as righteousness and they were spiritually transferred into Christ.
Second, no a target group is not made up of individuals, that would be a chosen group. If I am designing a sales plan for high school kids, my target group is corporate, not individual.
Let's address the "us" in Ephesians 1:4. Are they those chosen corporately before creation, or does the us refer to people who have set apart spiritually and alive at the time of the letter? The us refers to the individuals who have been saved. These individuals had been chosen twice, once before creation corporately, when the redemption plan blessing was formulated, and again individually when their faith was credited as righteousness and they were spiritually transferred into Christ.
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Hi 37818
One of the fallacies of bible study is to interpret the meaning of a passage based in the characteristics or attributes of God. To nullify what God's word says, because God has the capacity to act differently is faulty analysis. Scripture says God chose them then, not chose them again. To deny God makes choices because He if all knowing denies His word on the basis of His capability, a logical fallacy.
I understand the vague "not an issue" to be "yes."
So you agree we were not chosen individually before creation, but corporately.
And you agree we are chosen individually after God credits our individual worthless faith as righteousness.
One of the fallacies of bible study is to interpret the meaning of a passage based in the characteristics or attributes of God. To nullify what God's word says, because God has the capacity to act differently is faulty analysis. Scripture says God chose them then, not chose them again. To deny God makes choices because He if all knowing denies His word on the basis of His capability, a logical fallacy.
I understand the vague "not an issue" to be "yes."
So you agree we were not chosen individually before creation, but corporately.
And you agree we are chosen individually after God credits our individual worthless faith as righteousness.