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Calvin vs Charlie

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Ran the Man, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    This thought occurred to me:
    It is estimated that Charles Manson is responsible for the deaths of 9 people that we can prove, and perhaps even 30 or more other people.
    How many churches would care to hear his biblical views (either when he was alive or thru anything he wrote)?
    John Calvin is known to be responsible for the deaths of at least 50 people. He was called the Pope of Geneva and was a known tyrrant in his day.
    Why do we care what he has to say about salvation?
    Grandma always told me consider the source if you want to believe someone.Calvin wasn't an all around kind of guy, in my opinion.
     
    #1 Ran the Man, Feb 20, 2019
  2. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Personally, I put very little weight into whether or not I "want" to believe someone but rather focus on if there is logical reason to believe someone before coming to a conclusion. Did Grandma also ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?

    The fact that someone can begin an argument by forming a personal attack (Ad Hominem) against someone else in order to "poison the well" really carries no validity concerning the outcome of his writings.
     
    #2 Benjamin, Feb 21, 2019
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  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Are you honestly going to compare John Calvin to Charles Manson?

    And honestly, please cite your claims against Calvin.

    That being said, Calvinists are not Calvinists because they follow the teachings of John Calvin. They are Calvinist because they follow Scripture. John Calvin systematized the beliefs into a clear coherent manner but they are not original to him by any stretch of the imagination.
     
    #3 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
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  4. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Who's poisoning the well? Its a fact he was a control freak. He even had rules about how many housewares like cups could be on a table. No wonder he believed in fatalism and that God controlled everything. That was his Freudian Slip, his projection of his own sickness upon the character of God.
    Jesus never killed anybody. I'll follow him.
     
    #4 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again, who did Calvin kill? Cite your sources.
     
    #5 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  6. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Dude, it's well known. go look it up yourself. Micheal Servitus was the least of them. Beheadings, burnings, He makes ISIS look like copycats.
     
    #6 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Servetus is the only one I am familiar with which is why I ask you to cite your source. And Calvin did not kill Servetus.
     
    #7 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
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  8. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    John Calvin systematized HIS beliefs and had anyone who disagreed with him burned or beheaded. Whom did Paul or Jesus kill? That's all you need to know about John Calvin right there.
    Let me ask you: The idea of limited atonement doesn't bother you? maybe your loved ones are not on God's salvation list. How does that make you feel? Maybe you're not even on his list.
    Don't you find all of this to just be the rant beliefs of a Renassance torturer?
     
    #8 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  9. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Servetus ain't the only one. The number I believe is 54 known, most under the age of 21. Sources are on the net.
     
    #9 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again, need some citations.

    No, the doctrines of grace do not bother me at all. If anything, they encourage me. And no, these are not Calvin's original ideas. They are in Scripture and were taught WAY before he was even alive.
     
    #10 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
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  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Citation please.
     
    #11 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  12. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    #12 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  13. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    #13 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    #14 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I read the Institutes all the time.
     
    #15 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  16. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    Really? then why did the Nicene Fathers all teach free will? They specifically said that fatalism is pagan.
    So your possibly going to hell with nothing you can do about it encourages you? How?
     
    #16 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You realize people who hold the doctrine's of grace also believe in free will correct?
     
    #17 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  18. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    #18 Ran the Man, Feb 21, 2019
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to hell. I am eternally secure. By the way that is the 5th point of Calvinism. Preserving Grace.
     
    #19 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No that isn't what it means. You should do some research.
     
    #20 Reformed1689, Feb 21, 2019
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