Calvin vs Charlie

[Ran the Man]

This thought occurred to me:
It is estimated that Charles Manson is responsible for the deaths of 9 people that we can prove, and perhaps even 30 or more other people.
How many churches would care to hear his biblical views (either when he was alive or thru anything he wrote)?
John Calvin is known to be responsible for the deaths of at least 50 people. He was called the Pope of Geneva and was a known tyrrant in his day.
Why do we care what he has to say about salvation?
Grandma always told me consider the source if you want to believe someone.Calvin wasn't an all around kind of guy, in my opinion.

 

[Benjamin]

Grandma always told me consider the source if you want to believe someone.Calvin wasn't an all around kind of guy, in my opinion.

Personally, I put very little weight into whether or not I "want" to believe someone but rather focus on if there is logical reason to believe someone before coming to a conclusion. Did Grandma also ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?

Why do we care what he has to say about salvation?

The fact that someone can begin an argument by forming a personal attack (Ad Hominem) against someone else in order to "poison the well" really carries no validity concerning the outcome of his writings.

 

[Reformed1689]

This thought occurred to me:
It is estimated that Charles Manson is responsible for the deaths of 9 people that we can prove, and perhaps even 30 or more other people.
How many churches would care to hear his biblical views (either when he was alive or thru anything he wrote)?
John Calvin is known to be responsible for the deaths of at least 50 people. He was called the Pope of Geneva and was a known tyrrant in his day.
Why do we care what he has to say about salvation?
Grandma always told me consider the source if you want to believe someone.Calvin wasn't an all around kind of guy, in my opinion.

Are you honestly going to compare John Calvin to Charles Manson?

And honestly, please cite your claims against Calvin.

That being said, Calvinists are not Calvinists because they follow the teachings of John Calvin. They are Calvinist because they follow Scripture. John Calvin systematized the beliefs into a clear coherent manner but they are not original to him by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Ran the Man]

Personally, I put very little weight into whether or not I "want" to believe someone but rather focus on if there is logical reason to believe someone before coming to a conclusion. Did Grandma also ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?


The fact that someone can begin an argument by forming a personal attack (Ad Hominem) against someone else in order to "poison the well" really carries no validity concerning the outcome of his writings.

Who's poisoning the well? Its a fact he was a control freak. He even had rules about how many housewares like cups could be on a table. No wonder he believed in fatalism and that God controlled everything. That was his Freudian Slip, his projection of his own sickness upon the character of God.
Jesus never killed anybody. I'll follow him.

 

[Reformed1689]

Jesus never killed anybody. I'll follow him.

Again, who did Calvin kill? Cite your sources.

 

[Ran the Man]

Again, who did Calvin kill? Cite your sources.

Dude, it's well known. go look it up yourself. Micheal Servitus was the least of them. Beheadings, burnings, He makes ISIS look like copycats.

 

[Reformed1689]

Dude, it's well known. go look it up yourself. Micheal Servitus was the least of them. Beheadings, burnings, He makes ISIS look like copycats.

Servetus is the only one I am familiar with which is why I ask you to cite your source. And Calvin did not kill Servetus.

 

[Ran the Man]

Are you honestly going to compare John Calvin to Charles Manson?

And honestly, please cite your claims against Calvin.

That being said, Calvinists are not Calvinists because they follow the teachings of John Calvin. They are Calvinist because they follow Scripture. John Calvin systematized the beliefs into a clear coherent manner but they are not original to him by any stretch of the imagination.

John Calvin systematized HIS beliefs and had anyone who disagreed with him burned or beheaded. Whom did Paul or Jesus kill? That's all you need to know about John Calvin right there.
Let me ask you: The idea of limited atonement doesn't bother you? maybe your loved ones are not on God's salvation list. How does that make you feel? Maybe you're not even on his list.
Don't you find all of this to just be the rant beliefs of a Renassance torturer?

 

[Ran the Man]

Servetus is the only one I am familiar with which is why I ask you to cite your source. And Calvin did not kill Servetus.

Servetus ain't the only one. The number I believe is 54 known, most under the age of 21. Sources are on the net.

 

[Reformed1689]

John Calvin systematized HIS beliefs and had anyone who disagreed with him burned or beheaded. Whom did Paul or Jesus kill? That's all you need to know about John Calvin right there.

Again, need some citations.

Let me ask you: The idea of limited atonement doesn't bother you? maybe your loved ones are not on God's salvation list. How does that make you feel? Maybe you're not even on his list.
Don't you find all of this to just be the rant beliefs of a Renassance torturer?

No, the doctrines of grace do not bother me at all. If anything, they encourage me. And no, these are not Calvin's original ideas. They are in Scripture and were taught WAY before he was even alive.

 

[Reformed1689]

Servetus ain't the only one. The number I believe is 54 known, most under the age of 21. Sources are on the net.

Citation please.

 

[Ran the Man]

Citation please.

John Calvin's Bodycount... - Sermon Index

 

[Ran the Man]

John Calvin's Bodycount... - Sermon Index

You guys don't have that Puritan Hard Drive/Calvinist Ark of the Covenant with all his sacred writings?

 

[Reformed1689]

John Calvin's Bodycount... - Sermon Index

Is It Fitting for We Who Are Calvinists to Adopt the Theology of a Man, and One Who Murdered Servetus?

 

[Reformed1689]

You guys don't have that Puritan Hard Drive/Calvinist Ark of the Covenant with all his sacred writings?

I read the Institutes all the time.

 

[Ran the Man]

Again, need some citations.



No, the doctrines of grace do not bother me at all. If anything, they encourage me. And no, these are not Calvin's original ideas. They are in Scripture and were taught WAY before he was even alive.

Really? then why did the Nicene Fathers all teach free will? They specifically said that fatalism is pagan.
So your possibly going to hell with nothing you can do about it encourages you? How?

 

[Reformed1689]

Really? then why did the Nicene Fathers all teach free will? They specifically said that fatalism is pagan.
So your possibly going to hell with nothing you can do about it encourages you? How?

You realize people who hold the doctrine's of grace also believe in free will correct?

 

[Ran the Man]

Is It Fitting for We Who Are Calvinists to Adopt the Theology of a Man, and One Who Murdered Servetus?

Calvinists ARE followers of Calvin. That's what the word Calvin+ist means.

 

[Reformed1689]

So your possibly going to hell with nothing you can do about it encourages you? How?

I'm not going to hell. I am eternally secure. By the way that is the 5th point of Calvinism. Preserving Grace.

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinists ARE followers of Calvin. That's what the word Calvin+ist means.

No that isn't what it means. You should do some research.