A Biblical Based view of Penal Substitutionary Atonement

[Martin Marprelate]

Repeating false assertions that are precluded by scripture is without merit.

[sigh!] If only you would take that to heart.

God chose us through faith in the truth, therefore He did not choose us individually before creation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

God chose us from the beginning. What beginning is that? From the beginning of the year? From the beginning of the English fox-hunting season? No; 'from the beginning.' On the first day, when God separated the light from the darkness, God had chosen us. What did He choose us for? 'For salvation.' Whom did He choose? God chose the Thessalonian Christians, and by extension all Christians, from the beginning for salvation. On what basis did He choose us? Because He loved us (Ephesians 1:4; 2:4 etc.). What mechanism did He use to save us? Faith. Faith in what? The truth. Jesus is the truth (John 14:6). He could have saved us by making us turn handstands, or by reciting the alphabet backwards, but He didn't; He saved us through faith in Jesus. How did He save us? Sovereignly (Acts 16:14; Galatians 1:15-16; Ephesians 2:8).

He chose us (individually) from the beginning to be saved by believing in Jesus. And lo and behold, when we believe we are saved; otherwise we are not. But that salvation was decreed 'from the beginning.' 'According to the faith of God's elect.........In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, but has in due time manifested His word through preaching......' (Titus 1:1-3).

 

[Van]

Sigh, even a little thoughtful prayer and study would tell you the beginning of the New Covenant is in view. How were we chosen through faith in the truth before we heard the gospel during our lifetime? Being chosen through faith means we had faith before being chosen. This is obvious. Sigh.

Next we get the rewrite "to be saved" rather than the actual "for salvation." We were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Efforts to alter the text are futile.

In summary, Christ's substitutionary sacrifice on the cross provides the price of redemption for everyone transferred into Christ, thus Christ died for all mankind, although only those put into Christ receive that reconciliation, when the penalty for their individual sins is removed by the circumcision of Christ.

 

[Van]

I see I missed another bogus point, "according to the faith of God's elect." What does this mean? Lets see: Since we are chosen through faith in the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13) to be an elect individual, first we had to have our faith in Christ credited as righteousness. But before that, before our faith was credited by God as righteousness, we must hear and respond to the gospel. So to plant, water and nurture faith in the gospel is to "further the faith of God's elect. OTOH, Paul labored against the kind of "faith" that was errant and would not be credited by God as righteousness.

Nothing in Titus or any other scripture conflicts with Christ dying for all mankind, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath, for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

 

[Yeshua1]

I see I missed another bogus point, "according to the faith of God's elect." What does this mean? Lets see: Since we are chosen through faith in the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13) to be an elect individual, first we had to have our faith in Christ credited as righteousness. But before that, before our faith was credited by God as righteousness, we must hear and respond to the gospel. So to plant, water and nurture faith in the gospel is to "further the faith of God's elect. OTOH, Paul labored against the kind of "faith" that was errant and would not be credited by God as righteousness.

Nothing in Titus or any other scripture conflicts with Christ dying for all mankind, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath, for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

God chose to save us period, as we had nothing to offer Him to get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

I see I missed another bogus point, "according to the faith of God's elect." What does this mean? Lets see: Since we are chosen through faith in the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13) to be an elect individual, first we had to have our faith in Christ credited as righteousness. But before that, before our faith was credited by God as righteousness, we must hear and respond to the gospel. So to plant, water and nurture faith in the gospel is to "further the faith of God's elect. OTOH, Paul labored against the kind of "faith" that was errant and would not be credited by God as righteousness.

Nothing in Titus or any other scripture conflicts with Christ dying for all mankind, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath, for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

the faith of the elect of God came to us from God Himself, so how can we get any credit for a free gift?

 

[Yeshua1]

Sigh, even a little thoughtful prayer and study would tell you the beginning of the New Covenant is in view. How were we chosen through faith in the truth before we heard the gospel during our lifetime? Being chosen through faith means we had faith before being chosen. This is obvious. Sigh.

Next we get the rewrite "to be saved" rather than the actual "for salvation." We were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Efforts to alter the text are futile.

In summary, Christ's substitutionary sacrifice on the cross provides the price of redemption for everyone transferred into Christ, thus Christ died for all mankind, although only those put into Christ receive that reconciliation, when the penalty for their individual sins is removed by the circumcision of Christ.

The beginning is from the foundations of the world itself, not from time of Christ!

 

[Van]

God chose to save us period, as we had nothing to offer Him to get saved!

Addressing strawman arguments does not move the ball. Answer this (and Y1 will not) why does God credit our faith as righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

Addressing strawman arguments does not move the ball. Answer this (and Y1 will not) why does God credit our faith as righteousness.

The basis of our salvation is the Cross and His grace, nothing I can add to this!

 

[Van]

the faith of the elect of God came to us from God Himself, so how can we get any credit for a free gift?

Addressing a strawman argument yet again. Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness?

 

[Van]

The basis of our salvation is the Cross and His grace, nothing I can add to this!

Did you see an answer or a deflection? Why does God credit our faith as righteousness?

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you see an answer or a deflection? Why does God credit our faith as righteousness?

God doesn't grant to any lost sinner any credit in their salvation!

 

[Van]

The beginning is from the foundations of the world itself, not from time of Christ!

Once again, how were we chosen through faith in the truth before Christ died for our sin? No answer will be forthcoming. Just more change the subject assertions.

 

[Van]

God doesn't grant to any lost sinner any credit in their salvation!

Note the inability to answer the question, just rewrite it! This is all they have folks, deflect, and deny. Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

Once again, how were we chosen through faith in the truth before Christ died for our sin? No answer will be forthcoming. Just more change the subject assertions.

God chose me to get saved before I was even born!

 

[Van]

God chose me to get saved before I was even born!

Yet another non-answer. Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness?
He does not realize he could not have faith, and therefore could not have been chosen through faith, before he was born. Deflection and denial are all this PSA advocate has to offer.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Once again, how were we chosen through faith in the truth before Christ died for our sin? No answer will be forthcoming. Just more change the subject assertions.

Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness.

The answer to the second question is especially easy. Because it was the good pleasure of His will (Ephesians 1:5).

The answer to the second is not really more difficult. The God who decreed salvation for His elect from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) also decreed the means. So long as you fail to understand that God is able to decree something in eternity that actually happens in time, I know you will be unable to accept that, but don't say no one explained it to you.

 

[Van]

Sigh, Martin says God chose us, but we did not know it, so we can say we lived without being a chosen people. Honest, that is it. Scripture means what it says, and it says we were not chosen until after we lived as not a chosen people and after we had lived without mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Romans 4
22 Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Why did God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness? Because of our justification.

The more posts, the more absurd the defense of PSA.

 

[The Biblicist]

How were we chosen through faith in the truth before we heard the gospel during our lifetime? Being chosen through faith means we had faith before being chosen. This is obvious. Sigh.

Sigh, what ignorance on display and what corruption of the text. It does not say we were chosen through faith but "chosen to salvation" and it is this salvation (not election) that came "through sanctification" or setting apart by the spirit through the effectual call of the gospel (2 Thes. 3:14) and faith.
First, get the text right and the grammar right as "salvation" is found in the accusative case and is the direct object of the action of being chosen.

 

[The Biblicist]

Sigh, Martin says God chose us, but we did not know it, so we can say we lived without being a chosen people. Honest, that is it. Scripture means what it says, and it says we were not chosen until after we lived as not a chosen people and after we had lived without mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Romans 4
22 Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Why did God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness? Because of our justification.

The more posts, the more absurd the defense of PSA.

Sigh, more misinterpetation of God's word on public display! The time of being chosen was "before the foundation of the world" and I don't think anyone was around prior to that to believe!!!! In time, we were "quickened" (Eph. 2:1) and the quickened are the ones who can "make their calling and ELECTION sure" because they now are in light, have the Holy Spirit and are capable of discerning the truth. Sigh!

 

[Van]

Sigh, what ignorance on display and what corruption of the text. It does not say we were chosen through faith but "chosen to salvation" and it is this salvation (not election) that came "through sanctification" or setting apart by the spirit through the effectual call of the gospel (2 Thes. 3:14) and faith.
First, get the text right and the grammar right as "salvation" is found in the accusative case and is the direct object of the action of being chosen.

Now we get yet another attempt to break the link between "chosen" and through faith in the truth. Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:13. We are chosen for the purpose of salvation through the sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. James 2:5 say God chose those poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God.

Finally, the Biblicist now claims the NASB translation (for salvation) is wrong, the CSB translation is wrong, and the NET translation is wrong. Also note, once again, that 1 Peter 1:1-2 says we are chosen through the sanctifying work of the Spirit. Therefore the gibberish offered to break the linkage in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is nonsense.