Totally Depraved Cornelius

So Jesus isn't God then?

God the Father chose Cornelius for salvation before the foundation of the world, and gave Him to Christ to redeem. God the Son redeemed him on the cross and God the Holy Spirit drew him, opened his heart to receive the word spoken by Paul and sealed him unto the day of redemption.

 

With reference to my post #42, I would simply point you to Ephesians 1:3-14.
But the idea that God chose Cornelius apart from Christ is bizarre. Jesus is God; the thing is impossible. But in salvation, the three Persons of the Trinity perform differing functions. Surely that is clear to you? The Father does not, for example, die on the cross. The Son does not give people to the Father to redeem (c.f. John 6:39).

So let's sort the question of salvation out from Ephesians.
First of all, we (Christians) were once dead in trespasses and sins; we once conducted ourselves in just the same way as non-Christians, and were by nature children of wrath just as they still are (Ephesians 2:1-3). Secondly, Gentile Christians were at one time 'without Christ' (Ephesians 2:12), outside of the covenants of promise, without God and without hope. It is 'now' -- that is, now that we have trusted in Christ -- the we have been brought near by His blood (Ephesians 2:14).

But none of this denies that the Triune God chose sinners for redemption before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). That He did so 'in Christ' is absolutely true, but it is implied in any case, what with Christ being God and all.

Now because God decrees something in eternity (e.g. Titus 1:2), that does not mean that it happens in eternity. Those who are chosen 'in Him before the foundation of the world' are still 'dead in trespasses and sins' and 'having no hope and without God in the world' until they believe. Until someone is found, he is still lost; surely you can understand that? Until someone is 'made alive,' he is still dead. Mrs Marprelate and I are going on holiday in June. We have marked the dates in our diaries, paid the cost in full, made arrangements for someone to look after Fido. As far as anything is certain in this poor fallen world, our holiday is certain. But we haven't been yet. I can't send you a postcard or tell you what a great time we had, because what was planned in the past is still in the future.

'This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me [Perfect Tense: one-off, completed event in the past] I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day' (John 6:39). The elect are absolutely sure; Christ will not lose one of them. 'And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day' (John 6:40). How are God's elect distinguished? They are the ones who believe in Christ. What shall we say about someone who thinks he's elect but hasn't believed in Christ? Until such time as he repents and trusts in Christ for salvation, he's fooling himself and whistling in the dark.

So the elect are they who believe in Christ for salvation. But when they believe, it is because God has loved them with an everlasting love, given them to Christ to redeem, and drawn them to Him by the power of the Spirit.

 

God did not choose all sinners to be placed into Christ, just His own elect!

 

This is because you are apparently unable to connect one Scripture with another, despite them being in the same letter.
'......Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.......having predestined us to adoption as sons by Christ Jesus to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace.........' (Ephesians 1:4-5).

Who is 'us'? Paul and the 'saints who are in Ephesus;' the people to whom he's writing the letter. They, like Paul were chosen --elected- -- by God before He made the world.

'Therefore remember that you, once gentiles in the flesh........were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world' (Ephesians 2:11-12).

Who is 'you'? The 'saints who are in Ephesus;' the people to whom Paul is writing the letter. This time he does not include himself among them because he is a Jew and therefore not an alien from the commonwealth of Israel (but see Romans 3:9). The Ephesian Christians, despite having been chosen by God in eternity past, still had 'no hope' and were 'without God in the world' until they believed. But note that they were not without God in heaven. God had chosen them and given them to Christ, and nothing could stop them being saved. But they weren't saved until they believed.

This was the case with Cornelius. God had loved him with an everlasting love, and therefore had drawn him with lovingkindness (remember Jeremiah 31:3?). He had led him to leave the pagan Roman religion, and attach himself to a Jewish synagogue; then He revealed Himself in a dream to Cornelius telling him to send for Peter; then in another dream He made Peter overcome his scruples about keeping company with non'Jews, and preach the Gospel to him. Then He opened Cornelius' heart to respond. The whole thing is gloriously monergistic! All the praise goes to God (Isaiah 42:8)!

Now if you can't get your head around that, I'm afraid there's nothing more I can do to help you. As Tom Cassidy used to say, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

You still are unable to compare Scripture with Scripture:
Ephesians 1:3. 'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,' just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.....etc.'
Ephesians 2:13. 'But now in Christ Jesus you who were once far off have been brought near.........etc.'

Now first you need to understand that what is decreed in heaven in eternity is fulfilled on earth in time.
Secondly, you need to understand that the text does not say that the Ephesian Christians brought themselves near; it says that they 'were brought near.' The same people who were chosen in eternity in Christ were brought near to God in time in Christ.

Trying to teach you theology is like teaching an elephant to climb a tree!

 

Scripture please? Where does God's word say that the drawing and the change of mind is forced?
MB

 

Lol, what would you call what happened to Saul on the road to Damascus?

 

Do you see visions like Paul did?Paul was not forced there is nothing in scripture to suggest that he was. LOL!

 

An exception. Like John the Baptist.

I wouldn't build a theological point on special case. Do you know anybody else since the 1st century that has heard Jesus speak aloud like Saul and his companions did? Anybody that was indwelt with the Holy Spirit in the womb?

 

I'm referring to Saul, not Paul.

Saul was struck down, blinded, and arrested from his determination to stamp out this cult of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

So you decide who's exceptions and who's examples in the Scriptures? What's your criteria for making the distinction?

 

A complete internal/external attitude adjustment?... Brother Glen

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

 

As I understand, everyone hates Christ from birth and loves idols bearing his name, if they are of a religious bias. So God takes people against their will and gives them a new heart that radically changes their nature to love and worship him.

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)

 

I'd 'like' this, but you're wrong about everybody hating Christ from birth. John the Baptist jumped for joy in his mother's womb at the presence of Christ.

 

All of it the results of the brightness of Christ in the vision.
In Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
In Pauls submission when he asked the Lord; "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" Paul was saved because He believed in Christ after the Lord spoke directly to him and called Him Lord. There is nothing forcible in acts 9.
MB