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Faith is a Gift, not just an action.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, May 3, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We cannot exercise faith in God without God. Paul makes clear that Faith is a gift by which we are saved.

    Ephesians 2:8-10

    Faith is given to the elect by God.
     
    #1 Reformed1689, May 3, 2019
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I take it you are limiting this to saving faith?
    All intelligent beings have natural faith.
     
    #2 Reynolds, May 3, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Thought that was pretty obvious.
     
    #3 Reformed1689, May 4, 2019
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #4 InTheLight, May 4, 2019
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  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Try again.
     
    #5 Reformed1689, May 4, 2019
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Anybody that can read can see the gift is "salvation through faith" and not merely "faith".
     
    #6 InTheLight, May 4, 2019
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The gift is the whole statement.

    2:8 faith; and that not of yourselves. “That” refers to the entire previous statement of salvation, not only the grace but the faith. Although men are required to believe for salvation, even that faith is part of the gift of God which saves and cannot be exercised by one’s own power. God’s grace is preeminent in every aspect of salvation (cf. Ro 3:20; Gal 2:16).

    John F. MacArthur Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible: New American Standard Bible. (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), Eph 2:8.
     
    #7 Reformed1689, May 4, 2019
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which is biblical, for how can spiritual dead sinners at war against God just "decide" to now obey and accept Him?
     
    #8 Yeshua1, May 4, 2019
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  9. Gorship

    Gorship Active Member

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    I don't think posting MacArthur changes anyone's mind. We're not catholic and he's no pope.

    For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8‭-‬9 NKJV

    reads to me that the "grace through faith" here is being described as the gift which I believe aligns with ITLs post.


    Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk
     
    #9 Gorship, May 5, 2019
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  10. Gorship

    Gorship Active Member

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    Some sorta enabling grace. Like a... Grace that's.. Almost.. Prevenient...

    Previenient grace.
     
    #10 Gorship, May 5, 2019
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  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Of course, this understanding is predicated on total inability; that the sinner does not possess the capacity for any positive spiritual action (Romans 3; 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2:14).
     
    #11 Reformed, May 5, 2019
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  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    What you and @InTheLight are ignoring though is that faith is PART of the gift. We did not have faith before.
     
    #12 Reformed1689, May 5, 2019
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  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The Centurion in Matthew 8 who begged Jesus to heal his servant was a gentile and Jesus "marveled" at his faith and said he "found great faith in him". He told the man “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

    So if Jesus was supposed to have gifted this man with faith so he could believe, why did he MARVEL at the faith he FOUND in him?
     
    #13 InTheLight, May 5, 2019
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  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And here is your problem. Jesus is not the one that gifts faith.
     
    #14 Reformed1689, May 6, 2019
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Even if I were to accept your premise, and I don't, you still haven't addressed why Jesus "marveled" at this man's faith.
     
    #15 InTheLight, May 6, 2019
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Well first, what is his faith in? Is it in Jesus to save him from his sins, or is it that Jesus could heal his son. Those aren't the same thing you know.
     
    #16 Reformed1689, May 6, 2019
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  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    If so then man would not have to do anything to get faith.

    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    MB
     
    #17 MB, May 6, 2019
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. Man does not have to do anything to get faith. It is a gift from God.
     
    #18 Reformed1689, May 6, 2019
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  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not according to Rom, 10:17
    MB
     
    #19 MB, May 6, 2019
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And how is faith not a gift according to Romans 10:17
     
    #20 Reformed1689, May 6, 2019
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