Man-made Doctrines of faith/worship 2

[David Kent]

I have done the search for you.

• Genesis 7:1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
• Psalms 12:7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
• Psalms 71:18Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come.
• Psalms 95:10Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
• Matthew 11:16But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
• Matthew 12:41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
• Matthew 12:42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
• Matthew 23:36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
• Matthew 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
• Mark 8:12And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
• Mark 13:30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
• Luke 7:31And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
• Luke 11:30For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
• Luke 11:31The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
• Luke 11:32The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
• Luke 11:50That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
• Luke 11:51From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
• Luke 17:25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
• Luke 21:32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

No we work to interpret scripture rather than rely on your Jesuit views.

No Futurism is the Jesuit view. I am taking the bible literally here.

 

[TurnTheTide1611]

Do a search for "this generation" in scripture and you will always find it means the generation that was being addressed. .

The quote above is not true.

Psalms 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

David wrote Psalms 95 (Hebrews 4:7). In Psalms 95, God was addressing the generation of David. But it was the generation of David's "fathers" in the wilderness that God was grieved with, not the generation of David. God called the generation he was grieved with, "this generation."

This is how is the phrase is used in the gospels when the Lord said "this generation shall not pass away." He was referring to the coming generation of the time of the fig tree budding. Not the generation of people he was addressing.

 

[Van]

The quote above is not true.

Psalms 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

David wrote Psalms 95 (Hebrews 4:7). In Psalms 95, God was addressing the generation of David. But it was the generation of David's "fathers" in the wilderness that God was grieved with, not the generation of David. God called the generation he was grieved with, "this generation."

This is how is the phrase is used in the gospels when the Lord said "this generation shall not pass away." He was referring to the coming generation of the time of the fig tree budding. Not the generation of people he was addressing.

Hi Turnthetide1611, apparently you use the KJV for study. Psalm 95:10 in many other versions has "that generation." Also note the "this" was in italics, which indicates the word was added for clarity. Therefore no one should make doctrinal assertions based on italicized words. In the NASB, "that" is also in italics. Apparently neither word (this or that) is actually in the text, and has been added for clarity. But many people read the "forty years" to mean the generation that wandered in the wilderness for 40 years, a past generation.

Perhaps you should provide another example where God uses "this generation" as you believe. (Hebrews 3:10 ?)

 

[Van]

Speculation is the mother of false doctrine. If a passage is vague, we being well studied, bright, and earnest, will fill in the blanks with what seems to us to be God's truth. Lets take "this generation will not pass away." Does this indicate those hearing the words of Jesus at the time will see the things He was talking about? Some people think so and thus an "ism" was born. Some people think not, and therefore they see the "ism" as man-made doctrine.

Some say "generation" is a mistranslation, the verse should read "this race shall not pass away." However, words have meaning (at least if you use the historical method of interpretation) and so "race" is not likely an accurate translation.

The view I like, but it too is simply speculation, is this generation refers to this evil or perverse generation, fallen mankind. See Matthew 12:45, Mark 8:38, Luke 11:29 and Acts of the Apostles 2:40.

 

[thomas15]

There are a bunch of covenants mentioned in the Bible. None of them could be rightfully called The Covenant of Redemption. I know there are multitudes of theologians, men with lots of graduate degrees and high volume book sales that claim that such a covenant exists.

Perhaps my Bibles are defective because of the covenants I read about in them, there are all kinds of details, terms and conditions. But no Covenant of Redemption. Covenant of Redemptionism?

 

[Reformed]

There are a bunch of covenants mentioned in the Bible. None of them could be rightfully called The Covenant of Redemption. I know there are multitudes of theologians, men with lots of graduate degrees and high volume book sales that claim that such a covenant exists.

Perhaps my Bibles are defective because of the covenants I read about in them, there are all kinds of details, terms and conditions. But no Covenant of Redemption. Covenant of Redemptionism?

There is no Trinity or Hypostatic Union mentioned in the Bible either. Should we toss those doctrines out?

 

[thomas15]

Fair enough. And yes I'm dumb. But explain to me why God would make a covenant with God. Please make it simple because as I mentioned, I'm dumb.

 

[Reformed]

Fair enough. And yes I'm dumb. But explain to me why God would make a covenant with God. Please make it simple because as I mentioned, I'm dumb.

You want it simple? OK. Instead of me typing out of litany of big words, let me quote from an article R.C. Sproul wrote that I am in complete agreement with regarding the Covenant of Redemption:

"The covenant of redemption is intimately concerned with God’s eternal plan. It is called a “covenant” inasmuch as the plan involves two or more parties. This is not a covenant between God and humans. It is a covenant among the persons of the Godhead, specifically between the Father and the Son. God did not become triune at creation or at the Incarnation. His triunity is as eternal as His being. He is one in essence and three in person from all eternity.

The covenant of redemption is a corollary to the doctrine of the Trinity. Like the word trinity, the Bible nowhere explicitly mentions it. The word trinity does not appear in the Bible, but the concept of the Trinity is affirmed throughout Scripture. Likewise, the phrase “covenant of redemption” does not occur explicitly in Scripture but the concept is heralded throughout.

Central to the message of Jesus is the declaration that He was sent into the world by the Father. His mission was not given to Him at His baptism or in the manger. He had it before His incarnation.

In the great “Kenotic Hymn” of Philippians 2, we get a glimpse of this: “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (vv. 5–11 NKJV).

This passage reveals many things. It speaks of the willingness of the Son to undertake a mission of redemption at the behest of the Father. That Jesus was about doing the will of the Father is testified throughout His life. As a young boy in the temple He reminded His earthly parents that He must be about His Father’s business. His meat and drink was to do the will of His Father. It was zeal for His Father’s house that consumed Him. Repeatedly He declared that He spoke not on His own authority but on the authority of the One who sent Him.

Jesus is the primary missionary. As the word suggests, a missionary is one who is “sent.” The eternal Word did not decide on His own to come to this planet for its redemption. He was sent here. In the plan of salvation the Son comes to do the Father’s bidding.

The point of the covenant of redemption is that the Son comes willingly. He is not coerced by the Father to relinquish His glory and be subjected to humiliation. Rather, He willingly “made Himself of no reputation.” The Father did not strip the Son of His eternal glory but the Son agreed to lay it aside temporarily for the sake of our salvation.

Listen to Jesus as He prays to the Father at the end of His ministry: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You; And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17:1–5 NKJV). The covenant of redemption was a transaction that involved both obligation and reward. The Son entered into a sacred agreement with the Father. He submitted Himself to the obligations of that covenantal agreement. An obligation was likewise assumed by the Father — to give His Son a reward for doing the work of redemption.

In his systematic theology, Charles Hodge lists eight promises the Father gave to the Son in this pact made in eternity. Briefly they are: that God would form a purified Church for His Son; that the Son would receive the Spirit without measure; that He would be ever-present to support Him; that He would deliver Him from death and exalt Him to His right hand; that He would have the Holy Spirit to send to whom He willed; that all the Father gave to Him would come to Him and none of these be lost; that multitudes would partake of His redemption and His messianic kingdom; that He would see the travail of His soul and be satisfied.

Because God honored the eternal covenant of redemption, Christ became the heir of His Father’s promises. Because this covenant was never violated, we reap its benefits as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ."

 

[thomas15]

I stopped reading at the word (R.C.) Sproul.

And before you tell me about how awesome he was I spent two (1 week sessions) at the Ligonier Study Center in early 80s. Studied under him and John Gerstner more than a few times. Very nice guys, both of them.

 

[Reformed]

I stopped reading at the word (R.C.) Sproul

And your lack of intellectual honesty and false humility ("Please make it simple because as I mentioned, I'm dumb.") marks you as someone not even worth investing time with. Welcome to my special list.

 

[Reformed]

@Iconoclast , and you wonder my "special list" keeps growing? I have no time for posters who refuse to have an honest discussion.

 

[Iconoclast]

@Iconoclast , and you wonder my "special list" keeps growing? I have no time for posters who refuse to have an honest discussion.

I was afraid it was this guy ...lol he has nothing to say of any substance, this is the same thing he posted a few years ago...guess he did not learn when he took the class.

 

[Iconoclast]

@Iconoclast , and you wonder my "special list" keeps growing? I have no time for posters who refuse to have an honest discussion.

many seem to dismiss man-made doctrine as they call it, but in reality, it betrays a hatred of God and His truth as they do not come up with any other kind of doctrine..
In fact, they seem to try and oppose anything that can be helpful to anyone.

 

[Reformed]

many seem to dismiss man-made doctrine as they call it, but in reality, it betrays a hatred of God and His truth as they do not come up with any other kind of doctrine..
In fact, they seem to try and oppose anything that can be helpful to anyone.

Brother, I aim to be charitable when someone tells me they oppose man-made doctrines. The first thing I want to find out is what they think a man-made doctrine is. I ask them to give me an example. I then ask them to give me an example of a doctrine that is not man-made. That is the question that usually stumps them. One young man in a former church was bold and blurted out, "The Trinity!" I said, "Great! Please do me a favor and point me to the passage in the Bible that reveals the Trinity as a biblical doctrine." I received a quizzical look and few "umms" before he responded with a non-biblical answer. I graciously told him that, while the Trinity is biblical, there is not one passage in the Bible that even uses the word "Trinity". The doctrine stands because the case for the triune God is made in complementary passages that culminate in a logical conclusion. Does that make it a man-made doctrine? It would be preposterous to say "yes". Unfortunately, some Christians either cannot grasp that or refuse to acknowledge it. Arguing with them is counter-productive.

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother, I aim to be charitable when someone tells me they oppose man-made doctrines. The first thing I want to find out is what they think a man-made doctrine is. I ask them to give me an example. I then ask them to give me an example of a doctrine that is not man-made. That is the question that usually stumps them. One young man in a former church was bold and blurted out, "The Trinity!" I said, "Great! Please do me a favor and point me to the passage in the Bible that reveals the Trinity as a biblical doctrine." I received a quizzical look and few "umms" before he responded with a non-biblical answer. I graciously told him that, while the Trinity is biblical, there is not one passage in the Bible that even uses the word "Trinity". The doctrine stands because the case for the triune God is made in complementary passages that culminate in a logical conclusion. Does that make it a man-made doctrine? It would be preposterous to say "yes". Unfortunately, some Christians either cannot grasp that or refuse to acknowledge it. Arguing with them is counter-productive.

Think that at times all of us get thinking that our theology is all inspired by God, but the simple truth is that all of our understandings fall short of being 100 % correct in all areas!

 

[thomas15]

Special List=someone that disagrees with the maintainer of the "special list" due to a lack of study.

Fair enough. May I ask what is the down side of being on such a "special list"?

My point, totally lost of the keeper of "special lists" is that I once thought he same as the keeper of "special lists", had all of the correct words and articles at my finger tips to shut down the opposition and even studied under those who wrote the articles.

Then something both novel and funny happened. I cleared all of the clutter from my brain and started all over again.

I actually interface day to day with folks that have a belief system that none of us would agree with, one that is totally devoid of Biblical truth. If given the opportunity they would also but me on a "special list".

Have a blessed day gentleman.

 

[Reformed]

Think that at times all of us get thinking that our theology is all inspired by God, but the simple truth is that all of our understandings fall short of being 100 % correct in all areas!

The only thing that is inspired is the Word of God. Our understanding is affected by two things: we are finite beings without perfect knowledge and our minds are limited because of sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

Special List=someone that disagrees with the maintainer of the "special list" due to a lack of study.

Fair enough. May I ask what is the down side of being on such a "special list"?

My point, totally lost of the keeper of "special lists" is that I once thought he same as the keeper of "special lists", had all of the correct words and articles at my finger tips to shut down the opposition and even studied under those who wrote the articles.

Then something both novel and funny happened. I cleared all of the clutter from my brain and started all over again.

I actually interface day to day with folks that have a belief system that none of us would agree with, one that is totally devoid of Biblical truth. If given the opportunity they would also but me on a "special list".

Have a blessed day gentleman.

Joseph Smith cleared the bible from his mind also , went out into the woods and came up with the book of Mormon.

 

[thomas15]

many seem to dismiss man-made doctrine as they call it, but in reality, it betrays a hatred of God and His truth as they do not come up with any other kind of doctrine..
In fact, they seem to try and oppose anything that can be helpful to anyone.

Ouch!

 

[thomas15]

Joseph Smith cleared the bible from his mind also , went out into the woods and came up with the book of Mormon.

I'm off to the drug store. I don't have enough bandages to treat all of the wounds you have inflicted on my person.

Still I pray that you have a blessed day!