Is it really synergism?

[Gup20]

The unsaved cannot good, their motive is always sinful

How often have the unsaved cared for windows and orphans?

James 1:27 (NASB)
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

 

[Gup20]

The whole human race without the intervention of God, ". . . There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. . . ." -- Romans 3:11 ( Psalms 14:2 ).
Without God's intervention, we are all self comdemned. John 3:18.

OT law could not save. You cannot turn the gospel into law and expect it to save either.

The gospel was first effectively preached by God and believed by Abraham.

Galatians 3:6-9 (NASB) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.​

This covenant - the covenant of salvation by faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ - was made by God with Abraham 430 years before the law:

Galatians 3:15-18 (NASB) 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.​

So the Abrahamic covenant of salvation by faith in the gospel came 430 years before The Law of Moses and God ratified it in Genesis 15. This means - once ratified - it cannot have conditions added to it. So the Law does not modify the covenant of faith. The covenant of faith is truly “apart from the law.” It existed alone apart from the law because it came 430 before the law. The law has never existed outside of the covenant of faith, but the covenant of faith existed outside of and apart from the law.

Romans 3:21 (NASB) But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,​

 

[Gup20]

The unsaved cannot good, their motive is always sinful

Romans 7:15-20 (NASB) 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Neither can the believer. By your logic it would have been impossible for Adam to sin because he had no knowledge of evil and was created perfect and without sin. Yet, despite no sin in him, Adam did sin. So the scripture you are using (that none does good and none are righteous) isn’t prohibitive of the possibility of acting contrary to one’s nature, just generalizing that all are counted as sinners and have a sin nature.

Of course, it is death and the fear of death which induces the sin nature in man:

Hebrews 2:14-16 (NASB) 14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

 

[agedman]

How often have the unsaved cared for windows and orphans?

James 1:27 (NASB)
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Most certainly “religion” should be untainted by the world!

However, few are the churches that do not chase after the worldly schemes and devices even in their mode of worship and much more in the attempts to grow.

Widow and orphans in distress cannot be ignored by any religion and it be called a worthy religion - doesn’t matter what it is called.

A great majority give very large amounts to charitable works to rescue not only widows and orphans but all manner of earthly creatures - even the earth.

Here in the states there is a whole social government program in which a large portion is devoted to children and adults in unfortunate circumstances.

Countries in Europe have social structures.

To answer the question, very often.

 

[Gup20]

Proper Motive is everything. Only love for God and his glory will provide it.

Deuteronomy 30:15-16 (NASB) 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NASB) "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Whether God causes us to love Him is a choice He sets before man.

Matthew 22:35-38 (NASB) 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.

 

[1689Dave]

Deuteronomy 30:15-16 (NASB) 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NASB) "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Whether God causes us to love Him is a choice He sets before man.

This is law that cannot save. It only provides temporal physical rewards for obedience.

 

[1689Dave]

How often have the unsaved cared for windows and orphans?

James 1:27 (NASB)
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

I knew some unsaved "window" washers.

 

[Gup20]

This is law that cannot save. It only provides temporal physical rewards for obedience.

I might agree with you except that Paul quotes Deuteronomy 30 and specifically indicates this portion of The Law is talking about the salvation that comes by faith.

Romans 10:5-11 (NASB) 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Deuteronomy 30:11-16 (NASB) 11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.

 

[1689Dave]

I might agree with you except that Paul quotes Deuteronomy 30 and specifically indicates this portion of The Law is talking about the salvation that comes by faith.

Romans 10:5-11 (NASB) 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Deuteronomy 30:11-16 (NASB) 11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.

But you err when you turn the gospel into law that cannot save.

 

[Gup20]

But you err when you turn the gospel into law that cannot save.

Galatians 3:21-25 (NASB) 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 4:21-31 (NASB) 21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

The purpose of The Law was to conclude all under sin and show us that all are sinners. Its purpose is also to lead us back to the covenant of faith. The law can teach us about the covenant of faith... Paul makes that abundantly clear. Not that we are to follow the letter of the law, but rather that the law foreshadows and establishes salvation by faith alone by showing us that none of us have kept the law, and we can look to it as a tutor to teach us about faith. Clearly Paul uses it to teach us about salvation by faith alone apart from the law.

Think of The Law like a parable to teach us about the covenant of faith.

Hosea 12:10 (NASB)
I have also spoken to the prophets, And I gave numerous visions, And through the prophets I gave parables.

 

[Gup20]

I knew some unsaved "window" washers.

Haha... I didn’t even notice that. I am an IT guy, and typing “Windows” is muscle memory for my fingers.

 

[agedman]

Haha... I didn’t even notice that. I am an IT guy, and typing “Windows” is muscle memory for my fingers.

Does tapping in my widow to get someone’s attention count?

 

[Gup20]

Does tapping in my widow to get someone’s attention count?

If you tap twice, you will not be allowed into the promise land.

 

[Gup20]

But you err when you turn the gospel into law that cannot save.

Luke 24:44 (NASB) Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Jesus Himself testifies about the fact that the Law of Moses spoke about Him. We can’t dismiss The Law as unrelated to Christ when it speaks about Him and his purposes.

Luke 24:49 (NASB) "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

Galatians 3:16 (NASB)
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Hebrews 7:6 (NASB)
But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.

Hebrews 11:17 (NASB)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

 

[1689Dave]

Galatians 3:21-25 (NASB) 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 4:21-31 (NASB) 21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

The purpose of The Law was to conclude all under sin and show us that all are sinners. Its purpose is also to lead us back to the covenant of faith. The law can teach us about the covenant of faith... Paul makes that abundantly clear. Not that we are to follow the letter of the law, but rather that the law foreshadows and establishes salvation by faith alone by showing us that none of us have kept the law, and we can look to it as a tutor to teach us about faith. Clearly Paul uses it to teach us about salvation by faith alone apart from the law.

Luke 24:44 (NASB) Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Jesus Himself testifies about the fact that the Law of Moses spoke about Him. We can’t dismiss The Law as unrelated to Christ when it speaks about Him and his purposes.

Luke 24:49 (NASB) "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

Galatians 3:16 (NASB)
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Hebrews 7:6 (NASB)
But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.

Hebrews 11:17 (NASB)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

This is all good so long as we don't turn grace into works and the gospel into law. It is the nature of the new birth to live in harmony with the law even if never heard.

 

[Van]

Who is turning the Law of Liberty into the Law of Moses?

James 1:25
But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:12
So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Through Christ we who have been redeemed have been freed from bondage and are no longer under the Law of Moses. However, we are under the Law of Liberty, our Liberator's teachings, for we will be judged according to the Law of Liberty.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:45 AM Pacific.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:45 AM Pacific.