Once saved, always saved?

I understand what is being said here. But holding on to God through the gale is perseverance . No doubt it is His Mercy and grace which carries us through, but we do as TRUE believers have a willingness to trust in God. We are not robots. And truly, do you know what you will choose if ever in Peter's position when confronted with death ? I am confident in God, not myself. I know what God can do, not what I will do, I know what I would want to do. I will not assume anything about myself . No doubt God is all powerful, I pray I serve Him well, and may hear at the end of my life 'Well done good and faithful servant, you may enter into the joy of your Father". Thanks for sharing, Peace!

 

Yes, scripture does say this.

I am unaware of any scripture that says this. I believe that you have added words to scripture to alter the meaning to fit your dogma.

 

Okay , so what is this death to , that this sin called mortal -that life can not be given to the one in it? What is it death to?Please enlighten me. I don't appreciate being accused of falsely interpreting (what seems pretty obvious) scripture to fit my self prescribed dogma. Again , what is this (death) to, if not the soul which is the only death that actually matters?

 

atpollard, you seem a little salted.
Matthew 10:27-29
Fear God Alone
…27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the housetops. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.…
1 Peter 1:23-24
The Word of the Lord Stands
…23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For, “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25but the word of the Lord stands forever.” And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.…

It is clear , the death of the soul is what concerns God, and is what Christ came to save. That death first happens on earth, which simply means it is devoid of the Love of God, the eternal Holy Spirit is removed and / or never accepted in the case of -never accepting truth in ones life.

Abiding in the Holy Seed- the Living Word , the soul is in no threat of death. KEY WORD- ABIDING.
To abide means:accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation).
That is a choice and God gives strength GRACE to accomplish. But no doubt, it is a work IN FAITH for faith and works are one as God is one. They cannot be separated you cannot have one without the other.
That means, avoiding all occasions of sin and with faith in God's mercy and grace you will conquer sin and not continue in sin .

But for sure the death of the soul obviously happens on earth everyday, though sad, it is true. If that is not so , then the world would not have so many tragic events.Many of which are perpetrated by dead souls. And that is God's greatest concern. A soul without love is lost. I thank you Jesus, all is well with my soul. Blessings.

 

Ananias and Sapphira sinned in Acts 5.

[Acts 5:1-4 NASB] 1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back [some] of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back [some] of the price of the land? 4 "While it remained [unsold,] did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."​

Ananias sinned. That sin resulted in the death of Ananias. Ananias committed "a sin [leading] to death" [1 John 5:16], and nobody attempted to pray for Ananias. His death because of his sin was PHYSICAL and LITERAL and indicated that God had already passed judgement on the matter. That is "a sin [leading] to death".

Look to the typologies given in the Old Testament. God struck down the first born with the tenth plague. God struck down the Israelites in the desert. God ordered any man or animal that touched the mountain to be stoned. God killed the man who steadied the Ark of the Covenant on the cart. God struck down the son of David and Bathsheba born from David's sin. Were these deaths "spiritual" or were they literal, physical deaths?

They were all "a sin [leading] to death". There is no appeal once God has already passed judgement and claimed a life for a sin.

Death means death. No heartbeat. Zero brain activity. Body reaches room temperature. Blood coagulates. Decomposition eventually starts. Death.

**********

[1Jo 5:13-15 NASB] 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us [in] whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
​

First John tells us about the confidence we have that our prayers are heard and answered.

[1Jo 5:16-17 NASB] 16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not [leading] to death, he shall ask and [God] will for him give life to those who commit sin not [leading] to death. There is a sin [leading] to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not [leading] to death.​

Then John instructs us on praying for each other. As long as the brother or sister in Christ is alive, we should pray for their restoration from any sins we see them fall into. If God passes judgement on their life, as God did with Ananias, then we should not pray for them ... God has already judged their sin and they are past repenting.

[1Jo 5:18-20 NASB] 18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one. 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.​

John follows this with the reminder that Satan cannot touch what belongs to God. [conclusion: there are no 'accidental' deaths.]

 

REALLY? Now look who is falsely applying scripture to fit his false dogma.
1John 5:16-18
Effective Prayer
…16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he should ask God, who will give life to those who commit this kind of sin. ( ARE YOU SAYING THESES PEOPLE DIED A PHYSICAL DEATH BUT IT WASN'T REALLY THAT BAD AND GOD GAVE THEM LIFE AGAIN? You know that is not what is being said here.But you imply that with your false interpretation and poor use of scripture, YOU CANNOT USE SCRIPTURE AGAINST SCRIPTURE.)
Verse continued:
There is a sin that leads to death;( ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESES PEOPLE DIED PHYSICALLY AND STAYED DEAD BECAUSE THEIR SIN WAS REALLY BAD? You know that is NOT what it says in this verse other wise everyone would be dropping like flies and many would be resurrected on a continual basis.)
Verse continued:
I am not saying he should ask regarding that sin. 17All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death. 18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him.…
As I said SALTED!
The life being given to this kind of sin (venial) does not meriting death to the soul. It is clear that this has a meaning concerning ones spiritual life. No one is disputing what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. But you are denying the scriptural verses I placed and are ignoring the implications of mortal sin.

YES OR NO: do you go to hell for MORTAL SIN? Is it then also called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit the unforgivable sin? If life can not be given to this kind of sin can it mean it is just another title which simply means blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can two different expressions of the same action or affect mean the same thing YES OR NO? This may require some ELA skills.
Here, since I am a master at the English language according to my calling- does (espoused to one another)- mean the same thing as (married to one another)? OF COURSE!
In fact, the two were once completely interchangeable, with each serving as a noun meaning "a newly married person" or "a husband or wife" and also as a verb meaning "to marry." ... Around the same time, people started using the verb "espouse" figuratively to mean "to commit to and support a cause."

 

Don't worry atpollard, to have a faithful person like me in Christ for you ,I am like Motel 6, I'll keep the light on for you. LOL! Peace!

 

Did she actually ask Jesus into her heart? Do you know for certain that she made that decision?

 

... and THIS is what I meant by "waiting to speak".
God Bless.

 

Good idea you should try that. Haste makes waist, you should carefully read through the verses in question and ask: What is each saint expressing in the way they are designed in the Holy Spirit? And stop putting scripture against scripture when clearly Ananias and Sapphira were used as examples to solidify the authority of God in the early church. Hence a great fear came upon the church.
Acts 5 :10-12
Ananias and Sapphira
…10At that instant she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and found her dead. So they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11And great fear came over the whole church and all who heard about these events. 12The apostles performed many signs and wonders among the people, and with one accord the believers gathered together in Solomon’s Colonnade.…
Did they go to hell ,did their souls experience the love of God removed which is spiritual death or did only their flesh perish? Be careful how you answer, WAIT TO SPEAK, LOL!. I suggest sincerely praying to the Lord for the correct answer.

 

A Reminder (since you misunderstood my message):

 

No, my walls of text mean- I am not in the mode of being indoctrinated with false doctrine , PERIOD! It would seem the only one who does not understand is you , who rejects truth. Is that deliberate or unintentional? I will go with the.....the first, because you are trying to put up too much smoke screen and deflection.

 

Their spiritual status is purposefully left ambiguous, open to conjecture.

 

Well, mortal sin is not, I will leave it at that.

 

You should leave it.

 

You have said it. Truth should always be left to stand!

 

His word is truth.

 

PAGE 1.
This will be the explanation and a gathering of the equations of the sum. Christ never revealed the equation of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when addressing the Pharisees. He simply stated that every sin will be forgiven men , but that - Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So, guided by the Holy Spirit and the Bible , the Christian text book of knowledge for governance of FAITHFUL MEN we will learn. All we need to know in the written Word is revealed by the Holy Spirit .
Matthew 12:30-32
The Unpardonable Sin
30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.…

We are taught this:
2 Timothy 3:15-17
All Scripture is God-Breathed
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

So, it would seem that sometimes sums are supported by men inspired by the Holy Spirit who wrote the testimony of Jesus Christ . It was left to them to pen our instruction book. And some times simply...... equations revealed by those same men , help students of scripture come up with sums( (DOCTRINES) which scripture is profitable for men to make.

It is clear that the Holy anointed men of Christ reveal equations to Christ's sums - statements. ALL IS CHRIST in any case.

I am going to speak. This is a debate forum after all, which welcomes other Christian's input. It is disingenuous when men tell me that I should "wait before speaking" or let that be all you say. IT IS CALLED DEBATE, YOU ANSWER IN TURN, NOT IF PERMITTED.Otherwise it is just bloviating ( to call this welcome debate), whoever thought to invite debate. And if debate is invited, then the chance of you being admonish and edified ,is too.

With that said..... now the equations which support the sum of Christ's words concerning Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That means the HOW, which the apostles of Christ reveal.
There are 3 ways as I said before and the saints reveal those ways in the labor of their teachings.
A+B+C=Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
What are A,B &C ? this is going to be as elementary as Father, Son and Holy Spirit= Holy Trinity. Though the WORDS Holy Trinity are not written out in scripture , the faithful know it is a SUM in doctrine made by men anointed by the Holy Spirit. Who came up with Holy Trinity ,through the PROFITABLE study of the scriptures. Which we are permitted to make doctrine from . Hence, why it is the EVERLASTING ,ETERNAL GOSPEL which to its knowledge, there is NO END!

This Wall of text is the wall built around the little sister , that is the END TIME BRIDE. It is revealed in the Song of Solomon . It is the wall that my brothers -THE APOSTLES, built around the end Time Bride. They are the brothers spoken of in the Song of Solomon who call the end time Bride, a Princess because she is born from out of a Queen denomination and will become the LAST QUEEN in full union with Christ. At present she is the YOUNGEST CHURCH , and is in growth to her Queenship! That is NOT PROTESTANTISM! The only thing she shares with Protestantism is - Scripture Alone, but I argue , The end time Bride actually believes that and it is not just lip service!
Hebrews 6:
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6(and then have fallen away)—to be (restored again) to (repentance), because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

This would indicate a before and after state. An (AGAIN) thing can not happen, when once there (in a enlightened state having tasted the heavenly gifts) and have fallen away. This is an equation to the SUM which Christ spoke to the Pharisees. And is the type of fall Judas was guilty of. Though Christ spoke of the unforgivable sin while the Pharisees stood before Him , they were NOT the ONLY people before Him. But it was certainly a sting to them , (what He said.)
1 John 5:16-18
Effective Prayer
…16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death ( THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN), he should ask God, who will give life= (FORGIVENESS) to those who commit this kind of sin. There is a sin that leads to death( NOT BEING ABLE TO BE FORGIVEN); I am not saying he should ask regarding that sin. 17All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death( DOES NOT LEAD TO NOT BEING ABLE TO BE FORGIVEN= NOR BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE AS HEBREWS STATES= FORGIVENESS). 18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him.…

If you are born of God (TRULY) , you do NOT deny these TRUTHS.

CONTINUED......

 

Page 2.
Another equation which supports Christ's sum. I will conclude with the Rock my brother PETER:

Deliverance from False Prophets



1Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will
secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction
on themselves. 2Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. 3In
their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with deceptive words. The longstanding verdict against them
remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep.



4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell,a placing them in chains of
darkness to be held for judgment; 5if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its un-
godly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; 6if He condemned the cities of
Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction,b reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the
ungodly;c 7and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that
righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he
saw and heard)— 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the un-
righteous for punishment on the day of judgment.



10Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise au-
thority. Bold and self-willed, these men are unafraid to slander angelic majesties. 11Yet not even angels, though
greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord.



12These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blas-
pheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed. 13The harm they
will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.



They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their decep-
tion as they feast with you. 14Their eyes are full of adultery; their desire for sin is never satisfied; they seduce
the unstable. They are accursed children with hearts trained in greed.



15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor,d who loved the
wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that
spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.



17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.
18With lofty but empty words, they appeal to the sensual passions of the flesh and entice those who are just es-
caping from others who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to de-
pravity. For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.



20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It
would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to
turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to
its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

20-22 is the conclusion equation to the sum of what Christ said and is too a concluding sum Magnifying Christ
in His stance against not only the pharisees but all in the crowd.



In conclusion: To take a part of Matthew 12 (the part which speaks of the Pharisees and try to say it was only to
them , that Christ spoke, is a lie. Matthew 12 is clear there was a crowd.



I am right all the scriptures I posted speak of the UNFORGIVABLE SIN, and are details of the sum of Christ's
words in Matthew12 PERIOD!

 

Of course I believe the Word of God...

but not every spin put upon it.

I was tutored of Jesuitry and headed in the direction of a vocation or even the priesthood (barely post Vatican II).
After 2 or so years of study of both the word and the secular history of the RCC, I became a "Separated Brethren" (so to speak).