Cage Staged Calvinism

[JonC]

I think that we’ve all heard the term “caged staged Calvinist” (if not, do an internet search).

My question is whether or not this is actually a stage (maturity) or just the way some are (cult-like).

I’ve assumed that the term refers to a group of immature Calvinists who are, as Spurgeon put it, like Horatio wit his telescope. But the more I am here the more I wonder if this is not a class of Calvinists that will never mature to a fuller truth.

Is "Cage Staged" a stage/ matureity issue or is it simply a cult like understanding of Calvinism?

 

[Revmitchell]

Its an excuse to act badly. The defense of cage stage is new calvies are angry because they just recently found out something they believe to have been the truth the whole time. Calvinism draws a certain kind of crowd that are always in the cage stage. I don't have near as much a problem with calvinism as I do calvinists.

 

[JonC]

Its an excuse to act badly. The defense of cage stage is new calvies are angry because they just recently found out something they believe to have been the truth the whole time. Calvinism draws a certain kind of crowd that are always in the cage stage. I don't have near as much a problem with calvinism as I do calvinists.

The irony is that I agree with most of their doctrine (all of the "doctrines of grace"). But they seem to be very hateful people.

They are not like John Piper, Tim Keller, or Spurgeon (my influences).

Is this a stage or is this what we can expect from the next generation of Calvinists?

 

[Reynolds]

The irony is that I agree with most of their doctrine (all of the "doctrines of grace"). But they seem to be very hateful people.

They are not like John Piper, Tim Keller, or Spurgeon (my influences).

Is this a stage or is this what we can expect from the next generation of Calvinists?

It seems like several different things. It seems that the cage state Cals are trying to convince themselves as much as they are trying to convince us. Some are immature in the doctrine. Some are just immature in general. Some are just jerks.
On the other hand, High Calvinists are very comfortable in their doctrine. They believe what they believe and don't feel a need to endlessly talk about it. Most Calvinists get all up in arms when "double predestination" is mentioned. A High Calvinist fully embraces double predestination. I look at D. James Kennedy as the model Calvinist. He would take on non Calvinists in debate. He would lovingly chew them up and spit them out. He kept his Calvinism defense in the debate circuit and in the seminary classroom where it belonged.

 

[Reynolds]

Is this a stage or is this what we can expect from the next generation of Calvinists?

You are just ignorant. If you understood Calvinism, you would be a cage state Calvie yourself.

Seriously, it's what we can expect from the generation being turned out of seminary today.

 

[JonC]

It seems like several different things. It seems that the cage state Cals are trying to convince themselves as much as they are trying to convince us. Some are immature in the doctrine. Some are just immature in general. Some are just jerks.
On the other hand, High Calvinists are very comfortable in their doctrine. They believe what they believe and don't feel a need to endlessly talk about it. Most Calvinists get all up in arms when "double predestination" is mentioned. A High Calvinist fully embraces double predestination. I look at D. James Kennedy as the model Calvinist. He would take on non Calvinists in debate. He would lovingly chew them up and spit them out. He kept his Calvinism defense in the debate circuit and in the seminary classroom where it belonged.

I never thought about it, but I think you may be right about the "cage staged" trying to convince themselves. Perhaps they simply cannot entertain opposing views.

 

[JonC]

You are just ignorant. If you understood Calvinism, you would be a cage state Calvie yourself.

Seriously, it's what we can expect from the generation being turned out of seminary today.

Repent....Calvinism IS the gospel...

 

[Rob_BW]

So why are you spamming the board with these threads? Honestly, it reminds me of the Pharisee's prayer, "Oh, thank you Lord, that I'm not like those cage stagers."

 

[Reynolds]

So why are you spamming the board with these threads? Honestly, it reminds me of the Pharisee's prayer, "Oh, thank you Lord, that I'm not like those cage stagers."

I think he is seeking to understand the thinking and motivations of the cage stage/state Calvinist. (I know I am.)

 

[Rob_BW]

I think he is seeking to understand the thinking and motivations of the cage stage/state Calvinist. (I know I am.)

Well, if you need to study some fresh examples by drawing fire, I reckon this is the way to go.

Or you could read Luther, the original cage stage potty mouth. But speaking of, you don't necessarily think of Lutherans or Presbyterians having a cage stage.

 

[JonC]

So why are you spamming the board with these threads? Honestly, it reminds me of the Pharisee's prayer, "Oh, thank you Lord, that I'm not like those cage stagers."

Yes...I pray that prayer nightly

I know...we are supposed to ignore some things...it's just the polite thing to do.

But since I share an affirmation of the "doctrines of grace" this is a topic that interests me. What makes the difference between the "cage staged" and those who are more gracious?

Is it a stage of maturity or something else?

 

[JonC]

Well, if you need to study some fresh examples by drawing fire, I reckon this is the way to go.

Or you could read Luther, the original cage stage potty mouth. But speaking of, you don't necessarily think of Lutherans or Presbyterians having a cage stage.

I'd think all of those philosophical positions have "cage staged" folks. But why? That is the question I am asking. Some may want to ignore the issue but again, why?

 

[Rob_BW]

Yes...I pray that prayer nightly

I know...we are supposed to ignore some things...it's just the polite thing to do.

But since I share an affirmation of the "doctrines of grace" this is a topic that interests me. What makes the difference between the "cage staged" and those who are more gracious?

Is it a stage of maturity or something else?

Physical maturity or doctrinal maturity?

 

[Reynolds]

Well, if you need to study some fresh examples by drawing fire, I reckon this is the way to go.

Or you could read Luther, the original cage stage potty mouth. But speaking of, you don't necessarily think of Lutherans or Presbyterians having a cage stage.

I dont think of Presbyterians as having Cage State Cals. I rarely if ever cross paths or have discussions with any Lutherans.

 

[JonC]

Physical maturity or doctrinal maturity?

I am not sure. Probably spiritual. We all have our views but it takes spiritual maturity in dealing with other people who believe differently.

 

[atpollard]

Is it a stage of maturity or something else?

Something else.

With all due respect, what evidence is there really that impassioned rudeness effects Calvinists more than any other group. Are the Arminians on the Internet paragons of Christian love and modesty?

Are Liberal Democrats respectful? What about Conservative Republicans? Surely the Black Lives Matter movement is built on the respect and dignity of the individual? What about the paragons of tolerance that are Universities? At least we can point to the Evolutionists and Creationists for a discussion centered on a respectful exchange of facts, right?

Welcome to the 16th Century. In the days of Luther and Calvin, inflammatory rhetoric was the norm and words were exchanged like Molotov cocktails. The 1860’s saw violent clashes between the abolitionists and the slaveholders. The 1920’s saw violent clashes between immigrant crime syndicates and the police. The 1960’s saw ideological clashes between the government and the counterculture.

The 21st Century is an era of short attention spans, volatile tempers and deep clashes of personal beliefs. Like the 16th Century, society is changing and people are fighting for the future. You are expecting Calvinists to stop being people of their generation.

The old (Calvinist, Arminian and Atheist) act according to an old code of conduct. The young (Calvinist, Arminian and Atheist) act according to the new code of conduct.

 

[JonC]

Something else.

With all due respect, what evidence is there really that impassioned rudeness effects Calvinists more than any other group. Are the Arminians on the Internet paragons of Christian love and modesty?

Are Liberal Democrats respectful? What about Conservative Republicans? Surely the Black Lives Matter movement is built on the respect and dignity of the individual? What about the paragons of tolerance that are Universities? At least we can point to the Evolutionists and Creationists for a discussion centered on a respectful exchange of facts, right?

Welcome to the 16th Century. In the days of Luther and Calvin, inflammatory rhetoric was the norm and words were exchanged like Molotov cocktails. The 1860’s saw violent clashes between the abolitionists and the slaveholders. The 1920’s saw violent clashes between immigrant crime syndicates and the police. The 1960’s saw ideological clashes between the government and the counterculture.

The 21st Century is an era of short attention spans, volatile tempers and deep clashes of personal beliefs. Like the 16th Century, society is changing and people are fighting for the future. You are expecting Calvinists to stop being people of their generation.

The old (Calvinist, Arminian and Atheist) act according to an old code of conduct. The young (Calvinist, Arminian and Atheist) act according to the new code of conduct.

I believe it can affect any group when the focus is on doctrine at the expense of other people.

Why is it that Calvinists get the attention? I think because it is a more consoladated movement. There has not been a strong resurgence of Arminianism, and that group is not nearily as clearly defined.

But it can occur with any doctrine.

 

[Revmitchell]

Something else.

With all due respect, what evidence is there really that impassioned rudeness effects Calvinists more than any other group.

It is widely known and even admitted to by Calvies themselves. TGC recently wrote and article on it.

 

[atpollard]

It is widely known and even admitted to by Calvies themselves. TGC recently wrote and article on it.

“It is widely known” is your response to a request for evidence? I will take that as an admission that you have no other evidence to present.

Where are the articles by non-Calvinists written about the flaws of non-Calvinists? Do they not exist because only Calvinists are rude on the internet and in discussions, or is it simply the ‘spirit of the age’ that loves to apply a double standard?

 

[atpollard]

I believe it can affect any group when the focus is on doctrine at the expense of other people.

Then again, that is a reaction to the ‘seeker friendly’ and ‘ecumenical’ movements that championed the laudable goal of placing love of people ahead of doctrine and gave us female pastors, homosexual churches, same sex unions and Jesus as an allegorical rather than historical figure.

My mentor, Hank DeWeerd (a graduate of Moody), likes to say that Satan wants people to stray from the center of the road and doesn’t really care whether you run into the left ditch of liberalism or the right ditch of legalism.