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Featured The Extent of Jesus' Death

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Acts2.21, Jun 15, 2019.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It all depends on how you choose to apply terminology.
     
    #101 Reynolds, Jun 16, 2019
  2. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    one cant have something in order to get the same thing
     
    #102 loDebar, Jun 16, 2019
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Our belief does not limits God desire or ability to save.

    Could God not save more person? Our is His power limited by the number of believers? no atonement for one more sinner?

    How blasphemous, the arrogance, to think about limiting God by our unbelief
     
    #103 loDebar, Jun 16, 2019
  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Psa 78:37

    For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
    Psa 78:38

    But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
    Psa 78:39

    For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
    Psa 78:40

    How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
    Psa 78:41

    Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
     
    #104 loDebar, Jun 16, 2019
  5. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    You speak of "The Arminian view", but I am not arguing from this. I have never read any of this guys works, and the greater majority of my theological books, are by men like, Machen, Bottener, Calvin, Dabney, A & C Hodge, etc, etc.

    I have yet to meet a single Reformed/Calvinist in almost 40 years of being saved, who has ever explained from John 3:15-18, that Jesus Christ only died for a limited number, and not for the entire human race. Every single Greek lexicon that I have consulted, have said that the Greek "kosmos", which is always translated "world" here, in this passage, ,means, "the human race". It is only when one uses their "theology" to understand this passage, and not let it say what God intends, is when they force its meaning to teach a "limited atonement", etc. Even John Calvin, who is supposed to be the man behind the so called "Five Points of Calvinism", in his commentary on this verse, is very clear that it does not refer to other than the human race. In fact, he uses the term, "everyone without exception", which is very much non-Calvinstic! Another strong Calvinist, Robert Dabney, honestly says on John 3:16, "In Jno. iii; 16, make 'the world' which Christ loved, to mean 'the elect world'; and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish".
     
    #105 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  6. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    It looks like you are the one doing the "twisting" here! Your personal theology does not allow you to accept what the Bible very plainly teaches!!!
     
    #106 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  7. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    meaning exactly what?
     
    #107 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  8. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    can a human being be a "sinner" without even committing a sin? What of King David, whose son died, and he said that he would go to him? Are you suggesting that David went to hell? when exactly did his baby repent? The Bible very clearly says, "By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good" (Isaiah 7:15, etc), which shows that there is a time, known only to the Lord, when a child is in the state of "innocence". This is not theology, but the teaching of the Infallible Word of God!
     
    #108 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  9. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    Universal Atonement=Holy Bible Teaching. Show me otherwise from John 3:15-18.
     
    #109 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  10. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    who is "espousing universalism"? Do you know the difference between "universal salvation" and "universal atonement"?
     
    #110 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  11. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    partial truth and partial rubbish!
     
    #111 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  12. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    More "theological" nonsense!
     
    #112 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
  13. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    well said brother! "theology" has done much damage to the very simple Gospel Message of the Holy Bible. As the Apostle Paul says, "This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst". Since the entire world from the time of Adam, are ALL sinners, it is clear that Jesus Christ came into the world, to save ALL sinners! Praise the Lord for His Wonderful Mercy and Love! :Biggrin
     
    #113 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you don't try to make the verse teach universal atonement and stick to the point Peter makes about false teachers, you will become a better scholar.
     
    #114 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Prove the reason the Pharisees did not believe was because Jesus did not die for them is false. Lay it out for all to see.
     
    #115 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:15–18)

    You are reading "free will" into the passage. It merely describes the traits of those whom God saves. In essence, if it quacks, and walks like a duck, it is a duck. If they believe, it is evidence God saved them.
     
    #116 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you think like a first century Jew, "world" = gentiles too and no longer Jews only.
     
    #117 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is why choosing to believe is redundant. You already believed or you would not have chose to believe. This is Billy Graham style preaching that replaces baptism with mental assent in the sequence of events. In scripture, believers got baptized first and the rest followed.
     
    #118 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is circular. But this is what you've been taught. You would never "choose to believe" if you weren't already a saved believer.
     
    #119 1689Dave, Jun 17, 2019
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  20. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    indeed, in case you don't know, there are only TWO classes in the Bible world, Jew and non-Jew! if you are not the one, then you have to be the other!!! So, the world means the entire human race. even Calvin saw this in John 3:16, which your theology is preventing you from accepting!:Rolleyes
     
    #120 Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019
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