Wherein have I twisted it.
I did nor refer to a commentary of man but simply presented the passage plainly as from the text itself, some old some new translations.
How can that be twisting?
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The Extent of Jesus' Death
- Thread starter Acts2.21
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I did nor refer to a commentary of man but simply presented the passage plainly as from the text itself, some old some new translations.
How can that be twisting?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Universal atonement = you are the savior, not Christ = he didn't pay for the sin of unbelief = he did not pay for sin at all since all sin stems from unbelief.
37818
Well-Known Member
That was one restult of the promise God gave him.
If God did so, it would be fine with me.
If God did so, it would be fine with me.
Are you putting words in my mouth and bearing false witness against me Dave?
I never said these things.
But in fact He did pay for the sins of all as the scripture declares in several places.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
That's how it works out.
OldArmy
Member
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. Please expand on the bolded text.
Why can't we just accept the fact of the doctrine of universal atonement along with the doctrine of a divine criteria of who receives eternal life?
Jesus Himself purchased the human race with His blood and makes the selection of eternity - those possessing gospel faith in Him. Do not be concerned how you came by this faith. It is a gift of God.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
To all onlookers of this debate: If you haven't already, put your faith in Jesus Christ and He will unlock the doors of death and the grave, release you and bring you into the New Jerusalem.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The invitation is to ALL.
Jesus Himself purchased the human race with His blood and makes the selection of eternity - those possessing gospel faith in Him. Do not be concerned how you came by this faith. It is a gift of God.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
To all onlookers of this debate: If you haven't already, put your faith in Jesus Christ and He will unlock the doors of death and the grave, release you and bring you into the New Jerusalem.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The invitation is to ALL.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Why aren't all saved if Christ paid for all sin including the sin of unbelief?
OldArmy
Member
Good catch (thank you), as I understand it children and or people with mental defects who don't understand right and wrong wouldn't be judged the same or maybe at all.
1, Jesus is God, the second Person of the Trinity.
2. The Father is God, the first Person of the Trinity.
3. Colossians 1:12-13 indicates it is the Father who inmates the transfer, but of course, the Holy Spirit (the third Person of the Trinity) acts as His agent. We are set apart in Christ by the Spirit, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
4. John 3:16 says "whoever" believes, but who decides whether we believe? God does. Note the second and third "soils" of Matthew 13 professed belief, but they were not transferred (redeemed) into Christ. God decides (or not) to credit our faith as righteousness, salvation is not automatic upon profession.
Why are you wasting time with all these "off the shelf" arguments. I have addressed and rebutted this argument time and time again.
When are we washed with His blood, when He died for all mankind 2000 years ago, or when we were transferred into Christ and underwent the washing of regeneration? No answer will be forthcoming.
OldArmy
Member
Because the atonement isn't applied to those who don't believe...(with the likely exception of those who don't understand the difference in right and wrong, like in the case of young children and mentally handicapped)
I illustrate it like this, you're at a counter to buy something, Christ is standing there with his hand stretched out with the payment for the item and wants you to take it. The item costs more than you can ever pay, and in refusing to accept His offer of payment for that item, you lose it.
No it's not a perfect analogy, the scriptures say not only can we not pay the debit we owe, but more will be taken.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
So it did not pay for any sin at all, since unbelief is the root cause of sin?
37818
Well-Known Member
I am of the view that on the account Christ died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14). That everyone is in the vine (John 15:1) and everyone is in the book of life (Exodus 32:33; Psalms 69:27-28). And those are not of a age to decide for themselves are safe in Christ who died for all (Mark 10:14). And those who are of an age to decide and do not will be counted as lost (John 15:6; Revelation 3:5; Revelation 20:15). Mark 10:15; John 3:3-4; 1 John 5:4-5.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It only makes sense. If Jesus did not pay for the sin of unbelief, he didn't pay for any sin because all sin stems from unbelief.
OldArmy
Member
Sure, if you ignore all the contradictory statements in the scriptures to universalism.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
But that is what you have if you ignore limited atonement and try to say Jesus paid for all the sins of all people.
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