A question for my fellow Calvinists

[Reformed]

There seems to be a habit among some Calvinists saying that they are not Calvinists. They claim to be Mongergists soteriologically but distance themselves from the Calvinist label. In my conversations (on and offline), the two most popular reasons for rejecting the Calvinist moniker are 1. The scorn they receive over the term from Christians who are not Calvinists. 2. Disagreement with John Calvin on his other beliefs. Charles Spurgeon had no problem describing himself as a Calvinist because even in the 19th-century the term had become ubiquitous in describing Reformed soteriology only. Today, in the 21st-century, the term means the same thing. Calvinist does not mean embracing Presbyterian ecclesiology, paedobaptism, or even covenant theology (although many Calvinistic Baptists do hold to the latter).

So, I have a few questions for my Calvinist brethren who do not like the term.

1. What is your objection to the term?

2. Do you have an issue with Baptists who embrace the term?

3. What are your thoughts of an alternative descriptor such as Monergist?

Thank you and Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[JonC]

My objection to the term (within Baptist circles ... i.e., and affirmation of T.U.L.I.P.) is that it links me with militant Calvinism.

I am SBC. The SBC has seen it's fair share of "cage staged" Calvinists. This has encouraged others to be anti-Calvinistic.

I hate to say it, but of Baptistic leanings Calvinism has earned it's reputation for spreading hate and discord above any other position. The few very vocal "hypers" have given the group at large a bad name.

Personally, I do not want to be associated with anyone who holds Calvinism as their religion. That is the issue with me and the term. I'd prefer to explain my position rather than be lumped in with the ungodly minority who hold my position.

 

[Reynolds]

There seems to be a habit among some Calvinists saying that they are not Calvinists. They claim to be Mongergists soteriologically but distance themselves from the Calvinist label. In my conversations (on and offline), the two most popular reasons for rejecting the Calvinist moniker are 1. The scorn they receive over the term from Christians who are not Calvinists. 2. Disagreement with John Calvin on his other beliefs. Charles Spurgeon had no problem describing himself as a Calvinist because even in the 19th-century the term had become ubiquitous in describing Reformed soteriology only. Today, in the 21st-century, the term means the same thing. Calvinist does not mean embracing Presbyterian ecclesiology, paedobaptism, or even covenant theology (although many Calvinistic Baptists do hold to the latter).

So, I have a few questions for my Calvinist brethren who do not like the term.

1. What is your objection to the term?

2. Do you have an issue with Baptists who embrace the term?

3. What are your thoughts of an alternative descriptor such as Monergist?

Thank you and Soli Deo Gloria!

My best friend who is a high Calvinist, but tries to avoid being called a Calvinist or saying he is one does so for the following reasons:
1. The only man he wants to be named after is Christ.
2. "A bunch of the general Calvinists are fruit loops."

 

[JonC]

My best friend who is a high Calvinist, but tries to avoid being called a Calvinist or saying he is one does so for the following reasons:
1. The only man he wants to be named after is Christ.
2. "A bunch of the general Calvinists are fruit loops."

That is the problem we see on this very forum. Those who are most known as "Calvinists" are not Calvinists at all because of how they hold their position.

But how can we combat this heresy that has infiltrated Christianity?

I suppose every Christian position has a counterpart that is a worlderly anti-Christ position of that view. I guess the tares have to be expected to grow amongst the wheat.

 

[Revmitchell]

My objection to the term (within Baptist circles ... i.e., and affirmation of T.U.L.I.P.) is that it links me with militant Calvinism.

I am SBC. The SBC has seen it's fair share of "cage staged" Calvinists. This has encouraged others to be anti-Calvinistic.

I hate to say it, but of Baptistic leanings Calvinism has earned it's reputation for spreading hate and discord above any other position. The few very vocal "hypers" have given the group at large a bad name.

Personally, I do not want to be associated with anyone who holds Calvinism as their religion. That is the issue with me and the term. I'd prefer to explain my position rather than be lumped in with the ungodly minority who hold my position.

And then there is the fact that some around here do not consider you to be calvinist enough to be a clavinist, kind of like some black folks thinks other black folks do not act black enough so that call them oreo's.

 

[Jerome]

Spurgeon had this to say regarding those whose 'Calvinism' consists primarily of seeking to condemn those who, in some points, differ from the brethren:

The Calvinism of some men is not the Calvinism of John Calvin, nor the Calvinism of the Puritans, much less the Christianity of God.

 

[Jerome]

Hmm...Reformed/MorseOp/Herald has a thing about alternate names for Calvinism? Oh the irony...

 

[Reformed]

My objection to the term (within Baptist circles ... i.e., and affirmation of T.U.L.I.P.) is that it links me with militant Calvinism.

I am SBC. The SBC has seen it's fair share of "cage staged" Calvinists. This has encouraged others to be anti-Calvinistic.

I hate to say it, but of Baptistic leanings Calvinism has earned it's reputation for spreading hate and discord above any other position. The few very vocal "hypers" have given the group at large a bad name.

Personally, I do not want to be associated with anyone who holds Calvinism as their religion. That is the issue with me and the term. I'd prefer to explain my position rather than be lumped in with the ungodly minority who hold my position.

Jon, obviously you are entitled to your opinion (which I do not share in the least). I can state that militant anti-Calvinists are just as bad as the Calvinists you are describing but I do not know how that forwards any meaningful discussion.

Calvinism is not my religion. In fact, I am of the opinion you are creating a strawman when you infer there is such a group. First and foremost I am a Christian. My Reformed (Calvinistic) leanings are part of my theology. There is no dissecting them from my belief system but I do not identify myself as a Calvinist first. And for the sake of this thread, I define Calvinism as nothing more and nothing less than the Reformed (or Monergistic) view of soteriology. But I did not start this thread to defend Calvinism/Monergism. I wanted to find out why those who are like-minded on Calvinistic soteriology askew the name that has come to define it for hundreds of years. You have given your reason and I thank you for it.

 

[Reformed]

My best friend who is a high Calvinist, but tries to avoid being called a Calvinist or saying he is one does so for the following reasons:
1. The only man he wants to be named after is Christ.
2. "A bunch of the general Calvinists are fruit loops."

I have run into #1 more than a few times and I certainly appreciate that reason.

I agree, there are plenty of Calvinists who are not playing with a full deck. But there is no shortage of Arminians/Synergists/Wesleyans/[insert any other term you like] that are also batty between the ears. To assume that theological craziness is the domain of just one theological camp is a dishonest statement. I am not suggesting you believe that. I am just taking liberty with your #2 reason for the sake of discussion.

Also, I have no idea what a high Calvinist is unless you are describing Calvinists in Colorado who love their cannabis.

 

[Jerome]

I wanted to find out why those who are like-minded on Calvinistic soteriology askew the name that has come to define it for hundreds of years.

They are being told to avoid the term by their gurus:

Tom Ascol's 'Founders' website specifically instructs those wanting to turn their Baptist church Reformed to:

Avoid terms such as Calvinism

Likewise, Mark Dever has counseled those training for the ministry at SBTS to avoid mentioning their Calvinism (or Amillennialism) as they go out to preach:

cdn.sbts.edu/media/audio/spring2016/20160225-sbts-chapel-mark-dever.mp3

 

[Reformed]

One of the motivating reasons why I started this thread has to do with a conversation I had with a brother in Maryland last week. I was visiting friends and family in Maryland and Jersey and one of those friends embraced the Reformed faith years before I did. In fact, he answered a lot of my skeptical questions when I first started challenging my then current belief system. He does not refer to himself as a Calvinist because of the blowback he receives from other Christians. He is an easy-going, not-want-to-offend type of guy, so for him, the path of least resistance was an easy choice. Unfortunately, in order for him to teach in his church, he has to put a check on his theology. I am of a different mindset and do not feel I need to apologize or hide what I believe. I also do not believe I should march down Main St. with an "I am a Calvinist" banner. My friend and I disagree on this issue but we love each other anyway.

 

[Reynolds]

I have run into #1 more than a few times and I certainly appreciate that reason.

I agree, there are plenty of Calvinists who are not playing with a full deck. But there is no shortage of Arminians/Synergists/Wesleyans/[insert any other term you like] that are also batty between the ears. To assume that theological craziness is the domain of just one theological camp is a dishonest statement. I am not suggesting you believe that. I am just taking liberty with your #2 reason for the sake of discussion.

Also, I have no idea what a high Calvinist is unless you are describing Calvinists in Colorado who love their cannabis.

A high Calvinist is a real Calvinist.

 

[Jerome]

Calvinists....What are your thoughts of an alternative descriptor such as Monergist?

Thank you and Soli Deo Gloria!

The precise name is Gomarist:

The Gospel Coalition:

"In 1603, Arminius was appointed professor of theology at the University of Leiden, where he was strongly opposed by his colleague, Francis Gomarus. Both Arminius and Gomarus....thought of themselves as Reformed, as Calvinists....Following Arminius’ death in 1609....the Arminian party issued a document called the Remonstrance, setting forth the “Five Articles of the Arminians.” Gomarus and others formed a Contra-Remonstrance party (Gomarists) to oppose the Arminians"

"Oldenbarneveldt, Advocate-General of Holland...wanted toleration for the Arminians. The Contra-Remonstrance from Gomarists was submitted to the States of Holland in 1611. Oldenbarneveldt and the States of Holland decided on toleration....Prince Maurice, the son and heir of William of Orange, eventually took the side of the Gomarists....Maurice had Olderbarneveldt and others imprisoned... the Estates-General called for an assembly [the Synod of Dort]"



see also:

Dictionary of Religion

"Gomarists or Anti-Remonstrants. —The opponents of the Arminians. They take their name from their leader, Francis Gomar, who was born at Bruges in 1563. He commenced his studies at Strasburg and Heidelberg, and in 1582 came to England, and went first to Oxford and then to Cambridge, where he took his B. D. in 1581. In 1594 he was elected Professor of Divinity at Leyden, and he is chiefly known for his violent opposition to the doctrines of his colleague Arminius. He was present at the Synod of Dort, in 1618, and was the main instrument in getting the Arminians expelled from the Reformed Church....He was a man of great learning, and very bigoted in his views"

 

[Reformed]

A high Calvinist is a real Calvinist.

Well, that really helps!

 

[Jerome]

This is similar to Southern Baptist, they've a well-deserved reputation that can't be fixed just by slapping on a 'Great Commission Baptist' label instead.

 

[JonC]

And then there is the fact that some around here do not consider you to be calvinist enough to be a clavinist, kind of like some black folks thinks other black folks do not act black enough so that call them oreo's.

this is true. Only goes to show the world is full of stupid people

 

[JonC]

Jon, obviously you are entitled to your opinion (which I do not share in the least). I can state that militant anti-Calvinists are just as bad as the Calvinists you are describing but I do not know how that forwards any meaningful discussion.

Calvinism is not my religion. In fact, I am of the opinion you are creating a strawman when you infer there is such a group. First and foremost I am a Christian. My Reformed (Calvinistic) leanings are part of my theology. There is no dissecting them from my belief system but I do not identify myself as a Calvinist first. And for the sake of this thread, I define Calvinism as nothing more and nothing less than the Reformed (or Monergistic) view of soteriology. But I did not start this thread to defend Calvinism/Monergism. I wanted to find out why those who are like-minded on Calvinistic soteriology askew the name that has come to define it for hundreds of years. You have given your reason and I thank you for it.

I can only speak to my experience. Perhaps I am more concerned about these "bad seeds" within Calvinism because I am a Calvinist.

I think it is up to us to call out the heresy within rather than attack those without. I am tired of "campish" loyalty. We are Christians and should not defend the anti-Christian within our walls.

 

[Reformed]

I think it is up to us to call out the heresy within rather than attack those without. I am tired of "campish" loyalty. We are Christians and should not defend the anti-Christian within our walls.

Jon, I cannot speak for others but I have not been a silent critic of those within my "camp" that are deserving of criticism. There are some on my side who are members of this board that I am not even on message board speaking terms. Would it be that all Christians are concerned about the "bad seeds" in their circle of influence?

 

[JonC]

Jon, I cannot speak for others but I have not been a silent critic of those within my "camp" that are deserving of criticism. There are some on my side who are members of this board that I am not even on message board speaking terms. Would it be that all Christians are concerned about the "bad seeds" in their circle of influence?

I wish Christians would inforce Christian behavior. Too often I see Christians being silent if the unChristian behavior supports their position.

 

[Iconoclast]

That is the problem we see on this very forum. Those who are most known as "Calvinists" are not Calvinists at all because of how they hold their position.

But how can we combat this heresy that has infiltrated Christianity?

I suppose every Christian position has a counterpart that is a worlderly anti-Christ position of that view. I guess the tares have to be expected to grow amongst the wheat.

What heresy is that JonC.....? Describe it for us by all means?
Are you suggesting such a heresy has appeared on Baptistboard?