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Revelation 12 - a Verse by Verse, and even phrase by phrase study

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, Aug 14, 2019.

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  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    #61 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    These responses are proving Rev. 12:17 and it's interpretation by scripture (Gen. 40:8; 2 Pet. 1:20; Isa. 8:20) to be accurate.
     
    #62 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Not true at all. Others will read, even if you personally choose not to, or have so and rejected it (I still haven't seen any scriptural reason yet for so doing if you have).

    2Co_13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
     
    #63 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
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  4. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    This is an accusation, though veiled. It is untrue. I have not changed a single word of scripture, and even provided the definitions as scripture itself gives concerning the certain words in Proverbs 8. What I did see from you, was a partial translation of Proverbs 8:22, which stated that qanah means 'created' in that context.

    To even say so, from just a logical perspective, is quite silly (lacking wisdom), for to say that God had to create Wisdom to create everything else is self-refuting. By what Wisdom did God create Wisdom?
     
    #64 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
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  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    What, in your 'opinion', makes this thread 'stupid' (lacking normal intelligence)?
     
    #65 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
  6. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Thanks.
    So you do not think it is appropriate to help direct people (who may view this form and its post,) away from such heretical garbage? I mean people outside of yourself ,who are not as familiar with Alofa or this forum, may think what he post -to be worth wild doctrine.

    I find it interesting that you would address me , in what seems to be a forum for open discussion. What do you care if I respond to him? It would seem if you do not want him to have a platform or that he should be ignored , then you would take it up with whomever runs the site. Yet you try to correct me for pointing out his lies, why? And then proceed to call me dumb. Sounds personal.
     
    #66 OfLivingWaters, Aug 22, 2019
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Two things, I have already answered why and I did not call you dumb. Please reread my post. However, if you believe you and your posts are one and the same then there are bigger issues at play here.
     
    #67 Revmitchell, Aug 22, 2019
  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    That is a gross misunderstanding of how the scriptures are interpreted. Scripture is not interpreted by dictionary of men (which changes over time), but is self-interpreting (Gen. 40:8; 2 Pet. 1:20; Isa. 8:20, &c).

    Jews and Hebrew speakers/readers do not get to define what the words of scripture means. God already determined what each word means, as the Bible is a self-contained dictionary, thesaurus, math-tables, etc, even down to the very letters (see Psalms 119) as even each letter has meaning. The word of God is thus built upon God's definitions, and built up from there, as a body has a layer of bone, a frame, and even cells below that, DNA below that, upon which all the sinews, blood, muscles, etc are built.
     
    #68 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 12, is the central backbone of the whole of the Revelation, describing the entire battle between Righteousness and Unrighteousness (even self-righteousness), Truth and Error, Godliness, and ungodliness. It shows the great "war" (Daniel 9:26; Revelation 12:17) that has been ongoing since Lucifer rebelled, and the response of God in Jesus Christ at Calvary. It shows the Head of the Body being victorious, and how the Body will follow in that same victory train, taking up the very faith of Jesus to prevail even as He did. Just as a father shows their child how to accomplish a task, by demonstrating how to do it personally, and to even make the way smooth for the child (Romans 16:20).
     
    #69 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
  10. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    I do, and you did . And so we get to the crux of the matter. It is not my responding to Alofa, because you are responding to both of us, yet, you tell me that my responding to him is just as dumb as the people in here who feature his thread. IRONIC! Then you proceed to point out my post- "if you believe you and your posts are one and the same then there are bigger issues at play here."

    Is there something you would like to share with the class? He who gives a slight then says "no I did not, read my post". What seems to be clear is that ,you do not perceive you and your post as one and the same. Talk about split personality.

    I get it, don't dis Alofa because he makes you look good. (A) people like (A) people, but B people like what is even lesser than them so that they appear to outshine. C'est la vie! Carry on Mitch.
     
    #70 OfLivingWaters, Aug 22, 2019
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I did not call you dumb. Sorry I did say the posts were. Not sure why that needs explaining.
     
    #71 Revmitchell, Aug 22, 2019
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    We are at the end of the sixth seal already:

    [​IMG]

    Cited Link

    "shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven ...", which is paralleled in several other verses, namely:

    [1,290, AD 508 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 12:11 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

    [1,335, AD 508 unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 12:12 KJB - "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
    Revelation 14:13 KJB - "... Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth ..."

    [70 Weeks, 62 + 7 + 1 [1/2 + 1/2], 457 BC unto AD 27 [Baptism], unto AD 31 [Cross], unto AD 34 [Stephen], then the remaining 1810, unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 9:24-27 KJB - Whole ...

    [5 Anti-typical feast Months, AD 31-100, unto AD 1833/34, Day of Trumpets, from Pentecost; Leviticus 23; Woe 1, Woe 2 and Woe 3, encompassing the whole 'Exodus', 'Wilderness' unto 'Canaan']
    Revelation 9:5 KJB - "... five months ..."
    Revelation 9:6 KJB - "... those days ..."
    Revelation 9:10 KJB - "... five months ..."

    [1,260, 42 months, time, times and 1/2 time; AD 538 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 7:25 KJB - "... a time and times and the dividing of time." ["wear out the saints"]
    Daniel 12:7 KJB - "... a time, times, and a half ..." ["scatter the power of the holy people"]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... the tribulation of those days ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "...that tribulation ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Luke 21:24 KJB - "... the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
    Revelation 6:11 KJB - "... killed as they were ..." [two groups, past and future, see Rev. 20:4 KJB]
    Revelation 11:2 KJB - "... given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
    Revelation 11:3 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threescore days ..."
    Revelation 12:6 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
    Revelation 12:14 KJB - "... a time, and times, and a half a time ..." ["persecuted", see vs 13]
    Revelation 13:5 KJB - " ... forty and two months." ["power" was given to "him" [1st [sea] Beast, Rev. 13]]

    [Great Lisbon Earthquake, AD 1755, November 1]
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... a great earthquake ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19 - Sun]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... the sun ... shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... shall the sun be darkened ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... the sun shall be darkened ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "And there shall be signs in the sun ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19 - Moon]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the moon shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before the great and terrible day of the LORD come]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light,"
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the moon ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before that great and notable day of the Lord come]]
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the moon became as blood;"

    [Reign of Terror, French Revolution, AD 1793 unto AD 1797/8; 'spiritually Egypt and Sodom']
    Revelation 11:9 KJB - "... three days and an half ..."
    Revelation 11:11 KJB - "... after three days and a half ..."

    [Great Leonid Meteor Shower, AD 1833, November 13]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... and the stars shall fall from heaven ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "And the stars of heaven shall fall ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the stars ..."
    Revelation 6:13 KJB - "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth ..."

    [Day of Atonement, AD 1844, October 22; 2,300 which began in 457 BC, Ezra 7, Daniel 9, etc ending in AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 8:14 KJB - "... Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
    Revelation 9:15 KJB - "... prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year ..." [Rev. 14:6-7; Leviticus 23:26-32; 1 Kings 8:2; Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc]
    Revelation 10:6 KJB - "... that there should be time no longer ..." [no more prophetic time as a test]

    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and upon earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;"

    Isaiah 13:7 KJB - "Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:"
    Isaiah 13:8 KJB - "And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrow shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth ..."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "Men's heart's failing them from fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth ..."

    [The Close of probation for mankind in receiving and assimilating the Everlasting Gospel]
    Daniel 12:1 KJB -"And at that time shall Michael stand up ... there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time ..."
    Luke 13:25 KJB - "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without ..."
    Revelation 10:7 KJB - "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished ..."
    Revelation 22:11 KJB - "He that is unjust, let him be unjest still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

    [7 Last plagues, Wrath of God poured out]
    Job 14:13 KJB - "... thy wrath ..."
    Revelation 11:18 KJB - "... and thy wrath is come ..." [Revelation 16:2-17 KJB]

    [Final Events]

    Isaiah 13:10 KJB - "For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine."
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the stars shall withdraw their shining:"
    Joel 3:15 KJB - "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining."

    Jeremiah 25:30 KJB - "... The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth."
    Joel 2:11 KJB - "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army ..."
    Joel 3:16 KJB - "The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, utter his voice from Jerusalem ..." [New Jerusalem in Heaven]

    Joel 3:16 KJB - "... and the heavens and the earth shall shake ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "... and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "... for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."
    Hebrews 12:26 KJB - "... I shake not the earth only, but also heaven:"

    1 Kings 18:44 KJB - "... ariseth a little cloud out of the sea, like a man's hand ..."
    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "And then shall the appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ..."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together ..."

    Revelation 16:18 KJB - "... a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "... and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
    Revelation 16:20 KJB - "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "... and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
    Mark 13:26 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
    Luke 21:27 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and glory."
    Revelation 6:15 KJB - "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"
     
    #72 Alofa Atu, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Edit: Sorry I see your post was directed to OfLivingWaters.
     
    #73 3rdAngel, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hi just reading through the thread. I am just wondering why do you not agree with the scriptures that the OP is posting as you have not been able to demonstrate why in your view it is wrong except to claim that it is. Do you not believe the scriptures posted? If not why not? Thanks I am just curious to your opposition.
     
    #74 3rdAngel, Aug 24, 2019
  15. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    First of all, you must not have read thoroughly through the thread or you would not have said what you did. Secondly if you do read any of my responses you will see that I point out some key LIES. A servant of God has no lie in what they understand from prophecy through the Holy Spirit. Lastly, if you happen to come across a book called : "The Key to Heaven......what everyone is missing"

    Then you might understand things. When I post in here I do not post verbatim . I take pieces of my ensemble and reassemble it in different ways. It is always the same song but has a different arrangement and different instruments which gives it a different sound all the time . But is always the same Song. Some times my tempo is upbeat , sometimes not. Sometimes it may just sound like a lone piano, other times like an orchestra . That is so no one is able to learn the Song as I exactly received it. It is like when people remake a classic. It is always the same song, but may be assembled differently. Call it my Water Mark , if you will or Stamp of invisible ink . And sometimes I just post preludes.

    I may even do videos, when it is time. Anyway......I am not stupid, I got the number of this forum as I do most:Wink.

    If I decide to give the ACTUAL meaning of the REV.12 prophecy in here, in its fullness ,I will start a thread because, there is too much stuff being posted with this OP. And when you do give answer, as I said, he responds with everything including the kitchen sink. He throws at you a barrage of scriptures from everywhere as he personal interprets them. By the time you get done reading everything and responding to everything , it will be the following year....years.....in the mean time..... soforth and so on.......
    [​IMG]

    when you are done you fall asleep- once a child (of God)- (fall asleep on Christ) ........[​IMG]

    You end up like Rip Van Winkle.........


    [​IMG] and wake up as the OLD MAN,[​IMG]

    You end up back in sin , instead of becoming the new man.

    Which shows he does not know the meaning of what is prophesied. Understanding the prophecy is not that complicated if you have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit interprets the language of God.Though all the scriptures are Holy Inspired, INTERPRETATION, is Holy Inspired understanding. It is direct by God. It does not require page upon page upon page to interpret the Rev12 Sign.

    Isn't imagery fun?!!!
     
    #75 OfLivingWaters, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Just a heads up, no likes or reads the posts that are over lengthy. Neither do the pics add to the discussion and only wastes bandwidth space. Its a lot of work for nothing.
     
    #76 Revmitchell, Aug 24, 2019
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hi brother OfLivingWaters, nice to meet you and thanks for spending some time in your response. Actually to the contrary, I have been reading through this thread enough to see that the OP is providing detailed scripture support for his position in both his OP and each statement he is making in his posts. In response I have noticed that you have only posted your own words without showing why you disagree with the scriptures provided by the OP. That is why I was asking you why you disagree. As it seems to the casual observer reading this thread that you are only providing your own words to disagree with God's Word as you do not show why the OP is in error with the scriptures he is providing. I hope you can receive this in the spirit it was given (love).

    God bless
     
    #77 3rdAngel, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  18. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Pointed out key lies, will not respond (in giving the TRUE meaning of Rev.12) in here concerning his OP, as I said. Taking scripture and falsely applying them is not supported by scripture but rather interpreting as you see fit. Again , equating the atrocities of the Protestant movement as "The Earth helping the WOMAN" is a lie. In the manner he interprets a Catholic could also say the same thing about the Catholics who were killed and persecuted by protestants . And when they fled to such and such a place they were protected by earth concerning the respective countries of their exile.So your point? And considering as I said before, who God is, and what TRUE CHRISTIANITY is , neither the Catholic hierarchy nor the people of the Protestant movement acted remotely like Christ, it is fair to say, that he interprets scripture with partiality/ favoritism.
    And since that is the OBVIOUS case, he post in sin.
    Deuteronomy 16:
    Judges and Justice
    18You are to appoint judges and officials for your tribes in every town the LORD your God is giving you. They are to judge the people with righteous judgment. 19Do not deny justice or show partiality. Do not accept any bribes, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.…

    Which is EXACTLY what Alofa does.
    Leviticus 19:15
    Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

    Deuteronomy 1:16
    At that time I charged your judges: "Hear the disputes between your brothers, and judge fairly between a man and his brother or a foreign resident.
    James 2:8-10
    A Warning against Favoritism
    …8If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the Law as transgressors. 10Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.…
     
    #78 OfLivingWaters, Aug 24, 2019
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hi brother OfLivingWaters thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    To be honest though all I am seeing in your posts is that you are accusing your brother that has made this OP without addressing any of his posts and the scriptures he has provided to support his posts. You have not provided scripture support to show why it is you disagree with him. Even in this very post you have provided here, none of the scriptures you have provided show that what your brother has posted is in error. It seems your posts only seek to make out your brother is not sharing the truth of Gods Word without actually showing and proving from the scriptures why.

    Are you able to show why you disagree with your brother from the scriptures and address his posts? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures he is sharing? Please forgive me brother as I do not understand your position.

    Only sent in love..

    God bless
     
    #79 3rdAngel, Aug 24, 2019
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    PS. for me personally I would like to hear more as I think the OP is presenting some interesting thoughts on the book of Revelation. I do not mind it if someone disagrees with the OP but if you disagree show why from the scriptures. There is not need to attack someone personally or to have an argument for the sake of arguing if you are not able to show why you disagree.

    God bless
     
    #80 3rdAngel, Aug 24, 2019
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