"seven church ages" false doctrine...

[robycop3]

A member in another thread keeps bringing up the false "7 church ages" doctrine, citing this time as the "Laodicean age". This whole doctrine is false & phony as a Chevy Mustang. It is strictly a MAN-MADE invention, spread by John Darby in England & by such charlatans as William M. Branham in the US.

All the 7 churches of Revelation 1 existed at that time. However, TYPES of them have existed ever since, but no one single type has been predominant over the years.

And history proves the doctrine false. For example, what its followers call the "Philadelphian age", a time of great evangelism and conversion, was marked by the rise of several of the largest quasi/pseudo-Christian cults in the US, such as the LDS, SDA, & JW.It was marked by the Crimean War, & the US Civil War, among others. it was certainly not a time of great holiness worldwide!

Let us be united in denouncing this false doctrine, as it is total garbage & deserves no place in the Christian worship experience.

 

[Jerome]

"seven church ages"...Let us be united in denouncing this false doctrine, as it is total garbage & deserves no place in the Christian worship experience.

Oh brother.

Monergism.com • John Gill's Bible Commentary • Rev. 2-3

the church in the apostolic age...which the Ephesine church represents

the church in Smyrna....the church under the persecutions of the Roman emperors

Pergamos....This church represents the church from the time of Constantine, and onward, rising up to, and enjoying great power

[etc.]

 

[simon]

I'm with robycop3 on this, though there may be the parallels jerome says I see no biblical indication these churches that existed at the time represent ages and even if they did the church as a whole is now and has been for a while so diverse any and all can be related to many churches throughout the globe. So even if (which I don't believe) it is based on ages you can't tell which we are in and what use is this teaching anyway, we should focus on truths not over interpretation. As many cults have come from a strict interpretation of Revelations I personally will avoid aligning with any that are less than useful.

 

[Oseas3]

Reading the posts above, we need to analyse more deeply this matter under the light of Scriptures. John was caught up two times and carried for two different environments, as follow:

Firstly John was caught up pr raptured and carried to the time called Lord's Day.

The rapture of John - Rev.1:v.10-11&19
10 I John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are (within the Churches of Asia) , and the things which shall be hereafter;

Firstly John was caught up or raptured and he was brought to this time called Lord's Day, that is this seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium. His rapture was as whether he had made a travel within the time and in the space, understand?

When JESUS - the Alpha and Omega - revealed the time of Apocalipse unto John - and reveals unto us too - it was around the year 95, and had already passed near 60 years from His ascention. JESUS was, let us say, "worried" with His people, with the Churches, not only of that time, but also of our time simultaneously, for the Antichrist's movement was growing, and within the Churches did rise up false apostles, and many deceivers, and idolatries, bad things were happenings within the Churches, even the angels of the Churches were turning away from JESUS's doctrine, turning away from God's truth. Terrible, Terrible, Very terrible.

Church of Rome
In the other hand, the Church of Rome had fallen totally in the hands of the Devil, Satan was already enthroned in the Church of Rome through the devilish and blaspheme Papacy, the FIRST Beast. Rev.13:v.1-10

That said, JESUS was, let us say, "worried" with His people, with the Churches, not only of that time, but also of our time simultaneously, maybe much more "worried" with His Church of this time of Apocalypse, apostasy grows exceendingly in this time (1Tim.4:v.1& 2Thes.2:v. 2-4), this is the main signal of the manifestation of the MAN of sin, the son of perdition, even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.

The things exposed above reffer to what John saw in his FIRST RAPTURE, and were written in Revelation Chapters 1-2&3 - whose things were happening in the 7 Churches of Asia around the year 95, and the same are happening in this end of time, and will happen during the Antichrist's kingdom that will be established soon.
After these things John was raptured by the second time, now from the Lord's Day, that is this time of end, to the third heaven where was showed unto him all things as they are written in the chapters 4 to 22

Revelation 4:v.1-2
1 - After this I - John - looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Conclusion:
Everything John did write about the 7 Churches of Asia in Revelation chap.2-3, was happening in his time around the year 95, and are happening also in this end of the time, and is and will be worse than that time. 2Thes. 2:v.1-12

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords
Your fellow in Christ

Oseas
PS.
See in details in the post below what was happening with the angels of the 7 Churches of Asia

 

[Oseas3]

Continuation of above

We are living in the time of Apocalypse. John was brought in the Spirit on this last Day or last Millennium, that is the Lord's Day, and he heard behind him a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying: "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia". What John did see and did write refers itself to the present time of Apocalypse, we must understand that the spiritual conditions of the seven Churches of Asia is a reference for our days, by which were/are showed the real conditions of the Churches of today, mainly the spiritual conditions of the angels of these Churches.

Yeah, the LEAD PASTORS of the Churches are denominated as angels in the book of Revelation. In these latter times they present themselves with titles such as Pastor, or Apostle, or Bishop, or Evangelists, or Ministers, among others, in any case they are termed as angels of the Churches, where they minister their preachings.

We are not in darkness that this Day could overtake us as a thief. What can we understand by the Word of God, reading the book of Revelation? As it is written, John was caught up in Spirit in the Lord's Day, i.e. he was brought unto this present time, time of Apocalypse, in which we are living. John saw what is hapenning today in all evangelical or Christian Churches of this time. The seven Churches of Asia of around two thousand years ago are a reference of the Churches in our days, to show to us as the Churches would be spiritually in this apocalyptic time. It is evident that the voice of prophecy could not mentioned explicitly, for example, names of Churches of today like Assemble of God, or Baptist Church, or Presbiterian, or Lutheran, among others, of course.

What are the spiritual conditions of the angels of the Churches today, or in this apocalyptical time, taking the seven Churches of Asia as a reference?

Church of Ephesus
1 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Ephesus: Rev. 2:4-5 - 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Church of Pergamos
2 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Pergamos - Rev. 2:14-16 - 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Church of Thyatira
3 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Thyatira - Rev.2: 20-21 - 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Chuch of Sardis
4 - Conditions of the angel of the angel of Sardis - Rev.3:1-3 - And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. (The dead praise not the Lord, ...(Psalms 115:v.17) 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Church of Laodiceah
5 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Laodiceah - Rev.3:16-17 - 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and BLIND, and naked: (if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.)

Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia
6 - About the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, there was not problems with the angels of them, but whith the members and admirers of the Jews or inhabitants of Israel:
Rev. 2:v.9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 3:9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

All these things above are happening in the Churches of the present time, the time of Apocalypse, where many members or almost all members are admirers of the Jews in general, and discern not them which are liars and are of the synagogue of Satan.

Brethren, notice that until this moment described in Revelation chapters 1 to 3 the apostle John had not yet been caught up into heaven as is written in Revelation 4:v.1.


Revelation 12:v.3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven - that are the angels of the Churches: Rev.1:v.20 - , and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Your fellow in Christ

Oseas

 

[robycop3]

PARTIALLY right, Oseas3. John was shown a VISION of things to come. And, while WE think of "angels" as being all supernatural beings, They are called "malak" in Hebrew, & "aggelos" in Koine Greek, both of which mean "messenger or envoy", supernatural or otherwise. Thus, we must allow context to tell us whether a particular aggelos was a supernatural or human messenger.

I believe Jesus was teaching a lesson to all generations from that time onward with His messages to the churches, as He knew all 7 types would exist from then on. But there were simply NO successive "church ages". This is a man-made false doctrine.

 

[HankD]

Over the ages waiting for the LORD to return for His church some of the 7 churches of Revelation 2 and 3 give insight to historical markers of the church.

Predominant IMO Is Pergamos (marriage) which could be a marker pointing to the marriage of church and state around AD400 when the visible local church of Rome married the Pontifex Maximus of Rome wrongly assuming the position of Supreme Ruler of the "Universal" church.

At this time (5th century) the Church of Rome opened its doors to paganism confounding the message of the gospel.

 

[Oseas3]

PARTIALLY right, Oseas3. John was shown a VISION of things to come.

 

[Oseas3]

PARTIALLY right, Oseas3. John was shown a VISION of things to come.

For me, roby, it seems you understood PARTIALLY what John did write, for the angel of the Lord (not me) made it clear saying to John : Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; Rev.1:19

OK, but here we are speaking ot the angels of the Churches in accord Revelation 1:v.20: 20 The MYSTERY of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. ,

Ministries of Churches and their Ministers - angels - ministering the Church or Sects in these last days, such as Assembly of God, Presbyterian Church, Lutheran Church, Baptist Church, Methodist Church, Adventist Church, and Jehovah's Witnesses, among many others that are scattered everywhere.

In accord Revelation 12:v.3-4 we see the third part of the angels of the Churches falling from their places by the TAIL
of the Red Dragon -that is Satan- who has 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL. Who are the TAIL of the Red Dragon?
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads.

4 And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

Who are the TAIL of the Red Dragon?
If we do not identify the enemy or enemies, how can we fight against him/them?

We can understand better what Paul the Apostle said to the Church of Corinthians about angels, and to us too, of course: 1Cor.6:v.2&3

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Daniel prophesied, saying: 7:v.22&26-27 - This will be fulfilled LITERALLY now in the end of the times

22...Judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Amen.

In Christ JESUS , KING of kings and LORD of lords

Fellow in Christ
Oseas

 

[Oseas3]

Over the ages waiting for the LORD to return for His church some of the 7 churches of Revelation 2 and 3 give insight to historical markers of the church.

Revelation 2 and 3 reffer exclusively to the seven churches evangelized by the Apostle Paul.

The devilish history of the church of Rome - the Great Whore - has nothing to do with the Lord's Church, absolutely, but with the church established by Satan, the Catholic Church, ruled and guided by the Beast of 7 heads, and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Rev. 13:v.1 - What's name? Vicar Filii Dei or Vicar Son of God what is a lie, it is false.

Furthermore, this Beast, the Pope or Papacy - use a triple crown papal tiara that symbolises the (supposed) triple power of the Pope as "Father of Kings", "Governor of the World" and "Vicar of Christ".

Therefore, the Catholic Church ruled and guided by the Beast - the Papacy - is implicit in Revelation 13:v.1-10, and also in Revelation 17and18 and 19:v.1-3

The first use of the term "Catholic Church" (literally meaning "universal church") was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD).[18] Ignatius of Antioch is also attributed the earliest recorded use of the term "Christianity" (Greek: Χριστιανισμός) (in Catalan) 100 A.D.

Rev. 19:v.1-3
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and Glory, and Honour, and Power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath judged the Great Whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

 

[robycop3]

Revelation 2 and 3 reffer exclusively to the seven churches evangelized by the Apostle Paul.

The devilish history of the church of Rome - the Great Whore - has nothing to do with the Lord's Church, absolutely, but with the church established by Satan, the Catholic Church, ruled and guided by the Beast of 7 heads, and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Rev. 13:v.1 - What's name? Vicar Filii Dei or Vicar Son of God what is a lie, it is false.

Furthermore, this Beast, the Pope or Papacy - use a triple crown papal tiara that symbolises the (supposed) triple power of the Pope as "Father of Kings", "Governor of the World" and "Vicar of Christ".

Therefore, the Catholic Church ruled and guided by the Beast - the Papacy - is implicit in Revelation 13:v.1-10, and also in Revelation 17and18 and 19:v.1-3

The first use of the term "Catholic Church" (literally meaning "universal church") was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD).[18] Ignatius of Antioch is also attributed the earliest recorded use of the term "Christianity" (Greek: Χριστιανισμός) (in Catalan) 100 A.D.

Rev. 19:v.1-3
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and Glory, and Honour, and Power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath judged the Great Whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

The TRUE "beast" hasn't yet come. He will be ONE MAN & his empire, not a line of men as are the popes. While his sidekick, the "beast from the sea", might well be a pope or other RC official, the TRUE beast won't recognize any god but himself.

However, the RCC is the harlot of Rev. 17.

 

[David Kent]

A member in another thread keeps bringing up the false "7 church ages" doctrine, citing this time as the "Laodicean age". This whole doctrine is false & phony as a Chevy Mustang. It is strictly a MAN-MADE invention, spread by John Darby in England & by such charlatans as William M. Branham in the US.

I don't think John Nelson Darby taught any such thing. He was the main one responisble for spreading the false dispensational teaching. He didn't invent it but was the main veheicle for spreading it.

 

[Reynolds]

A member in another thread keeps bringing up the false "7 church ages" doctrine, citing this time as the "Laodicean age". This whole doctrine is false & phony as a Chevy Mustang. It is strictly a MAN-MADE invention, spread by John Darby in England & by such charlatans as William M. Branham in the US.

All the 7 churches of Revelation 1 existed at that time. However, TYPES of them have existed ever since, but no one single type has been predominant over the years.

And history proves the doctrine false. For example, what its followers call the "Philadelphian age", a time of great evangelism and conversion, was marked by the rise of several of the largest quasi/pseudo-Christian cults in the US, such as the LDS, SDA, & JW.It was marked by the Crimean War, & the US Civil War, among others. it was certainly not a time of great holiness worldwide!

Let us be united in denouncing this false doctrine, as it is total garbage & deserves no place in the Christian worship experience.

I don't think it's false doctrine.

 

[HankD]

I don't think it's false doctrine.

Its a little unnerving because it does seem to smack of "Advanced Revelation".

But isn't that what prophecy is all about?
And isn't the Book of Revelation a book of prophecy?

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There are MANY who have supported the theory of the "Seven Church Ages".

 

[Reynolds]

Its a little unnerving because it does seem to smack of "Advanced Revelation".

But isn't that what prophecy is all about?
And isn't the Book of Revelation a book of prophecy?

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There are MANY who have supported the theory of the "Seven Church Ages".

Yep. I see it as an interpretation of prophecy, not false doctrine.

 

[simon]

My thoughts are now if its true dos not believing cause any harm? and if its false does believing it do any harm? and I think no to both cases. To be clear i'm not criticising anyone for being interested or debating it.

 

[robycop3]

I don't think John Nelson Darby taught any such thing. He was the main one responisble for spreading the false dispensational teaching. He didn't invent it but was the main veheicle for spreading it.

Well, actually, he DID. He taught BOTH doctrines. Just read his history a little closer.

 

[robycop3]

I don't think it's false doctrine.

Well, actually, it IS, as history proves.

 

[robycop3]

My thoughts are now if its true dos not believing cause any harm? and if its false does believing it do any harm? and I think no to both cases. To be clear i'm not criticising anyone for being interested or debating it.

As Christians, we should fight & speak against ALL false doctrines of faith/worship.

 

[robycop3]

Its a little unnerving because it does seem to smack of "Advanced Revelation".

But isn't that what prophecy is all about?
And isn't the Book of Revelation a book of prophecy?

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There are MANY who have supported the theory of the "Seven Church Ages".

Well, Hank, "many" were wrong.