Featured Justification versus Eternal Redemption

When you can address the passages that have already been given to show you are in error...then you might be able to make statements like this.


God bless.

 

Okay, so you don't understand this.

I have changed nothing around, lol. That is just the clear Biblical Record: Adam died at a future time. Adam was thrust out of the Garden so he would not live forever:


Genesis 3:22-23 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.


My Doctrine is supported by Scripture whereas you have nothing but subtle implications and accusations.

You have shown me changing nothing. Again, more insult because you simply do not understand the Word of God. It is not God that causes you to behave in sucha manner.

No, actually it is not a waste of time. If you want to discuss it let me know. If you want to simply continue with this line of offense, okay. I can't force you to engage in profitable discussion.

Again...false. I affirm the depravity of man mcuh better than you, lol, because I point out that Scripture teaches that Depravity has only one ReEmedy, and that is being placed in Christ whereby we are born again.

I teach that we are New Creatures, as does Scripture. You teach that men are re-creations.

That is due to your indoctrination. I'm trying to help you with that, but apparently to no avail.

Well, start in Genesis, then work your way through Revelation.

You don't seriously want to talk to anyone about anything, my friend, you simply want to talk at them.

When you understand God, and His great love for men, then you would ask...

"...why wouldn't God save a sinner?"

And of course the answer is consistent throughout Scripture: man rejects God's will for his life.


God bless.

 

And the fatal flaw is your refusal to acknowledge basic truths of Scripture which is a result of your indoctrination.

It doesn't take a lot to understand that Christ is going away, the dsiciples sorrow over this, and He promises another will be sent in His place, that they not be alone.

So we see "I cannot stay here forever, but when He, the Comforter comes...He will be with you forever and will not leave. We also note Christ stating "I will come to you:"


John 14:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


And you ignore this. Continuing with the same statement...

You must worship three gods, rather than the Triune God of Scripture. You must reject Christ's teaching that He and the Father would come unto the disciples at a later date.

One more time: God is One.

So one simple question:

1. Are believers indwelt by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?


Continued...

 

It's quite obvious that people who are not eternally indwelt by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...are not members of the Church.

Not sure where you are getting this "The Lord Jesus' Kind of Organized Assemblies" but I would recommend you throw this resource away.

Are you even Baptist? Be honest.

Secondly, you use a word you apparently don't understand: promise.

Yes, the Lord is making promise of what is going to take place. In your understanding you have Jew and Gentile already one in Christ. How is that?

No, actually the Lord will begin building His Church on the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit is sent.

When He comes to them as He promises...


John 14:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Again you teach the exact opposite of what the Lord teaches:


17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

He dwells with them, but...shall be in them.

When? When the Comforter is sent, and Christ comes, and both He and the Father make their abode in them.

It isn't happening then. The disciples have benefitted from the filling of the Spirit (which is something that still takes place), but they were not indwelt by the Spirit.

Yes, saved from an eternal perspective...

...but not eternally redeemed. Not eternally forgiven. Not eternally indwelt.

In other words...not members of the Body of Christ yet.

I agree:

Saved from an eternal perspective...

...but not eternally redeemed. Not eternally forgiven. Not eternally indwelt.

In other words...not members of the Body of Christ yet.

You mean Cornelius and his household were "The Lord Jesus' Kind of Organized Assembly?"

What ineffable twaddle.

The Comforter was sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, thus revealing the Gospel to men that they might belive on the Lord Jesus Christ. You have the Lord sending the Spirit to saved peope. You don't realizxe it but you are teaching works-based salvation and salvation based on who people are, rather than salvation by grace, given as...a gift.


Continued...

 

Oh, you mean people that deny that they know Jesus Christ...

Matthew 26:72
And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

...and people that deny the Gospel...


Matthew 16:20-23 King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


...are "The Lord Jesus' Kind of Organized Assembly?"

Let me ask another question, if Jesus CHrist founded the Church during His earthly ministry...

...why do you say...

...?

And how can the Spirit be in them when the Lord is teaching that He won't be in them until He goes away? After He returns to His Father's House?


Continued...

 

But you just said He had already come:

You contradict yourself because your doctrine has nothing to do with Biblical Doctrine.

Smart move: not making ridiculous comments about this very clear teaching of Christ.

Who exactly will manifest themselves to the disciples "at that day?"

lol

Kind of forgetting the Church in the Wilderness, aren't you?


Acts 7:37-38 King James Version (KJV)

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


And just like the disciples of Christ...they were unbelievers:


Hebrews 3:17-19 King James Version (KJV)

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Your assertions are incorrect.


Continued...

 

Now, since I have shown on numerous occasions that you teach the exact opposite of Scripture, it would seem you have judged yourself.

What twaddle.

You forget that it is Christ that is building the Church. Even before the Church was began GOd has always maintained a remnant:


Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

On the contrary, the Lord is still glorified on this earth. You see...that is simply one of the ministries that the Comforter accomplishes:

John 16:14
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

And there are still those in the Church, the Body of Christ, who do the same:


John 7:38-39 King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

If this weren't so sad it would almost be humorous. But here you are teaching the exact opposite of what Christ and the Word of GOd teaches and you want to charge others with "playing church?"

You don't even know how one becomes a member of the Body.


Continued...

 

I have already explained that. Perhaps if you had read the OP you might understand: indoctrination.

?

Completely irrelevant to what I have said.

I hate to break it to you but...that would be you:

Who has said that? I can say one thing, that a majority of people on this forum affirm the Inspiration of Scripture.If you are going to rant, at least try to stick to the facts.

Certainly not, lol.

You have said that He was the Founder during HIs earthly ministry, so exactly when were they saved and when did they become the Church?

And why is it that you ignore the fact that no man had faith during the Law?


Galatians 3:23-25 King James Version (KJV)

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Why charge others with doubting the Inspiration of Scripture when Scripture means absolutely nothing to you? You are creating your own theology that cannot be supported by Scripture, and denying basic truths of Scripture itself.

?


Continued...

 

What ineffable twaddle.

Every member of the Church is added to the Church when they are saved. Hence...


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


How can they be added if they were already members? And how is it that Cornelius isn't added until well after? Peter notes a distinction between then and "the beginning..."


Acts 11:13-18 King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

My friend, if the truths of Scripture make you angry (and don't deny it, it's pretty obvious), perhaps you should reconsider who it is you think is "playing church."


Continued...

 

Again with water baptism.

Jesus is the Baptizer in a salvific context.

I will no longer trey to help you understand the unity of God, though you say you believe in a Triune God. It sounds more like you believe in three gods.

Don't be absurd, of course it does:

The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE.

Don't be absurd, of course there is. I am very sorry for you that you reject the Doctrine of Christ.


Continued...

 

So where exactly is your Scripture that...

...?

You are teaching the popular mythology, so how about Scripture? How about addressing the Scripture given you that shows this is an impossibility?

Finally! Something we can agree on.

Twaddle.

How about just focusing on what is actually said?

"There is one body." That is the Body of CHrist. And as explained to you before, under Law there was no faith in the Risen Christ available to men...


Galatians 3:23-25 King James Version (KJV)

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


And as mentioned numerous times Jew and Gentile were not one in Christ prior to Pentecost. That is the result after Faith came:


Galatians 3:25-28 King James Version (KJV)

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


If you try to say Jew and Gentile were already one in Christ then, my friend...you simply aren't being rational.


Continued...

 

You act as though I havce denied there is one Body. Why the rant? Why not actually quopte what I said?

The One Body is the Church, which is comprised of every reconciled born again believer.

If you read Revelation 2-3 you will discover that there were those "assembling" who were in the churches but not in the Church.

"Overcoming" is euphemistic for being saved.

How can they "each be one body?" lol

I've already addressed this.

No, when people are water baptized they are literally baptized.

But water baptism isn't in view in this text, as already shown you, it is obvious in the text:


Ephesians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Now go back to John 14:15-23 and re-educate yourself. Overcome the indoctrination.

Note that there is one body because there is one Spirit, One God and Father Who is in all of us.

Is that not what Christ taught? That at a future time they would be eternally indwelt by the Spirit...and by the Father?


John 14:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


The key word here is...ONE.


Continued...

 

It was actually for the purpose of Reconciliation, another Bible Basic I have tried to help you understand.

We are immersed into God in Eternal Union when we are reconciled to Him through Christ:


2 Corinthians 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


If God was in Christ, Who we can say without controversy came into the world at a particular point in time...


Galatians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


...then how many were reconciled to God before Christ came?

None.


Contniued...

 

Deal with the posts. Someone who teaches the exact opposite of Scripture has little cause to charge others concerning "Bible Teaching."


God bless.

 

You aren't glorifying GOd in the way Jesus taught...you are rejecting His teaching, as well as the teachings of the Apostles.

That has been shown several times. Would you like me to repost them?

So how were people eternally redeemed before then? You can't say they...

...because you have absolutely no Scripture to base that on, and you have been given many that show that is false.

Only the Cross can eternally redeem, and that was retroactive for the Old Testament Saints:


Hebrews 9:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Sure, the EPhesianbelievers were, but the Old Testament Saints were not a part of the Church. Even you have said...

You can't say it is just "Baptist believing churches" on earth since His earthly ministry because then you would contradict your statement there is one church.

You are confused about a great many basic truths, and it is pretty obvious you don't really care.


God bless.

 

I'll let the discussion speak for itself, lol.

God bless.

 

Again, calling my salvation into question and an accusation that I worship the Antichrist.

Nice.

And now you deny that Cornelius and his house were saved when Scripture states they were saved:


Acts 11:13-18 King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



Have a good evening.


God bless.