. . . in sanctification of the Spirit . . . .

[Dave G]

Sanctification and repentance comes by believing God's Word *ROMANS 10:17.

No they do not.

Belief does not open the door to forgiveness.
Forgiveness was already a sure thing to His children.
People believe because they are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ), and a person does not believe because they are not "of" Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
God's choice of the sinner secures the salvation of the believer, not the efforts of the person who will believe.

Faith comes by "hearing", and hearing by the word of God.
Sanctification happened at the cross for God's elect, and repentance happened in real time when they heard the Gospel of their salvation.

Believing God's word does not grant repentance.
People repent because they are born again.

Man's heart is the problem...
Repentance can only happen from a pure heart, one that is now in agreement with God and His words.

 

[Dave G]

and then carried out His plan during our lifetime including our individual election for salvation through faith in the truth.

The individual's faith is what secured their election?

 

[3rdAngel]

Sorry Dave the scriptures are fine. The problem is your interpretation of them. Nothing you have claimed here is biblical.

3rdAngel said: ↑ Sanctification and repentance comes by believing God's Word *ROMANS 10:17.

Your response...

No they do not. Belief does not open the door to forgiveness. Forgiveness was already a sure thing to His children.

How can you have forgiveness if you do not believe God's Word? Then we have God's Word that disagrees with your words that says...

JOHN 3:15-21 [15], That WHOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16], For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17], For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18], He that BELIEVES on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVES NOT is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Only God's Word is true Dave and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4

People believe because they are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ), and a person does not believe because they are not "of" Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).

NO! You have it back the front. We are ordained to life because we BELIEVE. If we do not believe we are condemned because we do not believe *JOHN 3:15-21. The scripture you have provided in JOHN 10:26 does not support your claim it supports what is being shared with you now. Let's see why by adding in the context? Please follow these scriptures carefully...

JOHN 10:1-27
[1], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
[2], But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
[3], To him the porter opens; and THE SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE (the Word of God: and HE CALLS HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME AND HE LEADS THEM OUT (those who hear God's Word follow what God says).
[4], And when he puts forth his own sheep, HE GOES BEFORE THEM AND THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE (the Word; God's Sheep are those who follow the Word of God).
[5], And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
[6], This parable spoke Jesus to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them.
[7], Then said Jesus to them again, Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
[8], All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
[9], I AM THE DOOR; BY ME IF ANY MAN ENTER IN HE SHALL BE SAVED AND SHALL GO IN AND OUT AND FIND PASTURE
[10], The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
[11], I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD; THE GOOD SHEPHERD GIVES HIS LIFE FOR THE SHEEP. (JESUS gives his life for those who BELIEVE God's Word and follows God's Word).
[12], But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, and scatters the sheep.
[13], The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.
[14], I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD AND KNOW MY SHEEP (those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD) AND AM KNOWN BY MINE.
[15], As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
[16], And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
[17], Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[18], No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
[19] There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
[20], And many of them said, He has a devil, and is mad; why hear you him?
[21], Others said, These are not the words of him that has a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
[22], And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
[23], And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
[24], Then came the Jews round about him, and said to him, How long do you make us to doubt? If you be the Christ, tell us plainly.
[25], Jesus answered them, I TOLD YOU AND YOU BELIEVED NOT: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
[26], But YOU BELIEVE NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT MY SHEEP, AS I SAID TO YOU (v3-4).
[27], MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND I KNOW THEM AND THEY FOLLOW ME (those who are God's Sheep hear His Voice; the Word of God and they follow God's Word.)

Context matters! God's Sheep are all those who hear God's Word and follow it..

Hope this helps.

 

[Dave G]

How can you have forgiveness if you do not believe God's Word?

Because you are placing God's decision to save someone behind what the person does to obtain it.
Salvation is not dependent upon the efforts and actions of men...it is "of the Lord".

Belief of God's word is a necessity, because Scripture declares that someone who "hears" it is "of God ( John 8:47 ).

Then we have God's Word that disagrees with your words that says...

JOHN 3:15-21 [15], That WHOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16], For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17], For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18], He that BELIEVES on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVES NOT is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Whoseover believeth is still "whosoever believeth".

But just because a person believes with their mind ( mental assent ), does not obligate God to save someone.
Rather, He acts, and the intended target of His "calling" reacts to it by belief.

Again, John 8:47.
They then believe "from the heart" and confess with the mouth ( Romans 10:8-10 ).

 

[3rdAngel]

Because you are placing God's decision to save someone behind what the person does to obtain it.
Salvation is not dependent upon the efforts and actions of men...it is "of the Lord".

Belief of God's word is a necessity, because Scripture declares that someone who "hears" it is "of God ( John 8:47 ).

Whoseover believeth is still "whosoever believeth".

But just because a person believes with their mind ( mental assent ), does not obligate God to save someone.
Rather, He acts, and the intended target of His "calling" reacts to it by belief.

Again, John 8:47.
They then believe "from the heart" and confess with the mouth ( Romans 10:8-10 ).

Sorry Dave your view of the scriptures here in unbiblical as shown through the scriptures in the previous post that you seem to ignore. They are Gods Word not mine and it is God's Word that gives all men the invitation to come to receive God's gift. Sadly many are called but few are chosen because men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. It is God that changes the heat as we believe and follow His Word *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4

 

[Van]

The individual's faith is what secured their election?

Sorry but no!!!!!

That means NO!!

Got it, our faith does not "secure" "obtain" "provide" "acquire" salvation. Please stop misrepresenting the biblical view. Our faith provides our "access" to God's saving grace, Romans 5:1-2.

If God, and God alone credits our faith as righteousness, He sets us apart in Christ. If He does not credit our faith as righteousness, then He does not set us apart in Christ.

Salvation does not depend upon the man that wills!!!!! Romans 9:16.

Faith is not works, Romans 4:4-5

 

[Dave G]

Sorry Dave your view of the scriptures here in unbiblical as shown through the scriptures in the previous post that you seem to ignore.

As you say, sir.

They are Gods Word not mine and it is God's Word that gives all men the invitation to come to receive God's gift.

" Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" ( Matthew 25:34 ).

Where is this invitation given to all men?

Sadly many are called but few are chosen because men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.

Sadly, many are called ( the Jews under the Law of Moses ) but few are chosen ( Matthew 22:14 )...please see the parable of the wedding.
But it's not because there are few men who have the strength within themselves to choose to obey God.

It's because God is choosing a "seed"... a remnant out of every tongue tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

God that changes the heat as we believe and follow His Word *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4

No, He does not.
Man's will and man's obedience does not obligate God one iota, to save someone.
If it did, He would be indebted to men for performing the correct action or set of actions:

" Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:4-5 ).

Salvation is not dependent upon what men do, but only on what God does...anything else is not grace...it is works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).

The heart is changed because God decides to change it...not because we do something to gain favor with God.
Again, you're teaching that man's efforts cause God to bestow a gift upon us.
Man's efforts have absolutely no affect on whether or not God saves someone ( Titus 3:5-6 ).

Not by works of righteousness that we have done ( like believing, obeying, etc. ), but according to His mercy He saved any of us.



Being born again is in no way dependent upon the will or actions of men ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ).

 

[Dave G]

Got it, our faith does not "secure" "obtain" "provide" "acquire" salvation. Please stop misrepresenting the biblical view.

Then please stop misrepresenting the biblical view.

Our faith provides our "access" to God's saving grace, Romans 5:1-2.

Faith doesn't purchase us anything.
God provides His children access to His grace...they don't have to do anything.

It's of grace, not of works.

Faith is not works, Romans 4:4-5

I agree.
It's a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).

What I see you proposing, is that something that a man has or does, ingratiates themselves to God.
That a person can gain God's favor by having or doing something...am I misunderstanding you?

If not, then that is not God's grace.

Anything that God gives to someone is a gift.
Eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ), not a reward.

If God gives faith to someone ( Ephesians 2:8 ), then faith cannot be responsible for gaining favor with God...that would be using something that was given to a man, in order to gain salvation.

That is works, and that turns a gift into a reward.
Unless God saves someone apart from anything they do, have, are, or ask, then that salvation is dependent upon whatever "met the requirement".

God is not a respecter of persons when it comes to men gaining favor with Him.

 

[37818]

Being born again is in no way dependent upon the will or actions of men ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ).

Ah, no. It is God and God alone by which a person is or is not born from God, but what precedes God's sole doing, ". . . to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: . . ."

 

[37818]

Belief does not open the door to forgiveness. . . .

". . . ye are saved . . . ." have forgivness ". . . through faith . . . ."

 

[Dave G]

". . . ye are saved . . . ." have forgivness ". . . through faith . . . ."

Exactly.
Through faith, not "because of".

We as mere men have nothing to stand on except His mercy and grace.
His gift of faith carries us through this life, and enables us to stand in the judgment.

Our faith wasn't ours, it was Christ's ( Hebrews 12:2 ).
That's why it will endure to the end, like He did on the cross.
It is the evidence of our salvation ( Hebrews 11:1 ), not the means whereby we receive anything.

He gave it to us ( John 3:27, 1 Corinthians 4:7, Ephesians 2:8 ).

 

[Dave G]

Ah, no. It is God and God alone by which a person is or is not born from God, but what precedes God's sole doing, ". . . to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: . . ."

Again, take a look at which has the power....belief, or God's grace in illuminating the sinner, thereby causing them to recognize their need of a Saviour:

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).

...and then to believe His words when the miracle of "prompting" through the Holy Ghost, takes place.