Romans 11

It is very encouraging to see actual bible study presented in this forum. Naturally I do not share much of the view presented. In order to avoid a long post, I will provide an alternate view of Romans 11:1-10 NASB

"I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes to see not and ears to hear not,
Down to this very day.”

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
And a stumbling block and a retribution to them.
10 “Let their eyes be darkened to see not,
And bend their backs forever.”

Here is the OP analysis:
verses 1-Having dealt with the harsh reality that the majority of Jews had rejected the Gospel, Paul asks, “has God rejected His people?” The answer is a strong negative; “God forbid”. God has not cast away His people.

verses 2-6. The first point Paul makes is that there was, is, always has been, and always will be a remnant according to Grace and Election. This election is not based on works, but wholly on Grace. Grace cannot be earned or demanded. If Grace could be earned or demanded, it would not be Grace

verses 7-10. The elect have obtained salvation, but the rest have been JUDICIALLY HARDENED.

And here is the alternate view:

1: His people refers to those chosen under the promise of the Old Covenant, believing Jews. Not all of the blood line descendants of Abraham.

2: His people (believing Jews) whom He foreknew (as part of the Old Covenant promise). Thus they were part of His previously formulated redemption plan under the Old Covenant Promise, not the Law.

3: Some of Abraham's descendants rejected God and killed His prophets. These were not part of "His people."

4: But from among the blood line descendants, God chose 7000 based on the condition of their faith in Him, for they had not bowed the knee to Baal.

5: At the time of Paul's writing of Romans, there had come to a a remnant, in the same way, or in other words according to God's choice of believing Jews.

6. An election based on faith is a gracious choice, and is not an election based on works.

7. Those seeking the promise by works were hardened, but those seeking the promise by faith were chosen. Note the timing of the choice, at the present time, rather than before creation.

8: The temporary hardening is as described in the OT.

9: The temporary hardening is as described elsewhere in the OT.

10: Note the duration of the hardening appears to last the lifetime of the individuals hardened at that time, rather than the hardening of all Jews for an unspecified period of time. Thus the hardening ended many many years ago.

As you can see, this is a radically different take on the passage. Study the passage and two very different views and see what fits with the actual scripture.

 

All Israel Will Be Saved are the Elect.

Nothing 'corporate' or 'national' or 'restored' about some big bunch of Jews anywhere, anytime.

A remnant of the Jews is all, ever.

28-32 doesn't come up with 'The Nation State of Israel', or anything significant in number about the Jews, any more than 'a remnent' does.

The 'all' at the end of 11:32 is not all those of The Jews that were found in unbelief, but also those in unbelief that were Granted the Conviction of their unbelief and Given Repentance and Faith, to be Saved.

The Spiritual Israel of The Jews is discribed in Roman's 11:12, as their "fullness", and the Spiritual Israel of the Gentles is discribed in Roman's 11:25, as "the fullness of the Gentiles".

All Spiritual Israel Will Be Saved.

Nothing special is in store for The Jews, in particular, much less having ANOTHER GOSPEL of Jesus Personally Coming to Earth to 'try and convince them to be saved'.

When Jesus Comes Back, their opportunity to Repent is over, in the Natural State they are now, in this life, when He Comes, or they die.

They Repent and Believe and are part of the Jewish Remnant, or they are lost.

The percentage you see Professing Jesus, now, has nothing indicated to change it at all.

 

I added a touch more after getting a 'like'.

Thank you, just a heads up to check if you still agree.

Hey, I might have learned a trick!

 

You might want to say what you 'want' it to mean, so I know where you are at with it.

The Jews used to be God's Witness.

The Jews as a whole were in agreement with the depths of depravity they reached, with their religious folks Hating and Sending Jesus to His Death.

A remnant of the Jews were Saved, at various times, until Jesus Comes.

That is the length of time 'blindness' has come upon Israel: until Jesus Returns at The End of this Present World, in Judgment.

All of the Elect Gentiles will have been Saved, which God Says, is "till the fullness of the Gentiles come in."

If you have to compose an additional scenario to push in between the text, there, to say something else, so be it.

....

Yeah, 11:26 is Jews.

"All Israel shall be Saved", are The Elect Remnant Jews.

All the Jews shown their unbelief and sin, Convicted of it, Given Repentance and Faith, and Saved Forever.

The Renant of the Jews is in Roman's 11:12 "their fullness" ", or the number of their Remnant that God Still Will Save in spite of pages that could be written of their depths of sin, as a whole, who will not be Saved.

"but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes;"

That's them. Jews. All Israel's Jews that are the Elect Remnant Shall Be Saved.

All Israel Shall Be Saved, in that sense.

God Chose some in Covenant Promise and He Will Be Faithful to Save" ALL" THE ELECT ISRAEL.

It is not appropriate or needed to designate "All Isreal", as both Jews and Gentile Elect.

It is simply appropriate and needed to remember to designate, "not all Israel is Israel", meaning some of Israel are not Elect, while, "All Israel that are Elect Will Be Saved".

 

The word "until" tells us nothing about later. If a man was faithful to his wife until she died, it doesn't mean he started cheating on her after she died. Mary was a virgin until Jesus was born is verse that itself tells us nothing about Mary's virginity after Jesus. You're injecting into Romans 11:25 that the "partial hardening" not only will end, but will also be undone. Do you think Paul was giving a prophecy for 2000 years into the future, when in the very next verse, v26, he quotes an Old Testament prophecy fulfilled by Jesus on the cross to support his statement?

 

Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all
under sin, that the promise
by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

The mystery expressed to the Gentiles was that The Jews had been God's Chosen Nation and Witness in the past, then:

The Jews had fallen from favor and were so evil as to see to the Death of God's Son and God Had Judged them and turned to the Gentiles.

However, even though the Gentiles were now God's Witness, they were to know the mystery that God Was Still Going to Save The Remnant of His Elect that were Jewish.

They as a Race and Nation and Witness were Judged, but God Had Still Made His Promise to some.

The rest of that message is that the number of the Jews to be Saved had greatly diminished and their blindness to all but the Remnant Elect Jews would last the remainder of the New Testament Era, until Jesus Returns.

 

Yes, terminus, like "to the end, άχρον, of the earth" which says nothing about what's beyond the end of the earth. "Until" tells us nothing about what comes later. Nothing.

 

I gave you illustrative examples that "until" and "end" tell you nothing about what comes after (no, I didn't say Paul said "end of the earth", I was uselessly explaining the nature of a word). I gave you the context of that verse, of which Paul did say (to which you didn't respond). I've done everything except tell you what it means. I give up on you.

 

As in what same Israel?

...
Roman's 11:25 is probably a broader inclusion of Israel being every Jew, but if you saw that one, also, as the unbelieving, who later were Convicted and Saved, then,

I made each Israel 11:25-28 the same.

Each case from 25-28, of 'Israel' is The Elect Remnant within The Jews.

In 11:26-28 'Israel' are The Elect Remnant within The Jews.

 

Yep, Blindness to the unbelieving Jews happened on Purpose, as Judgment upon The Jewish Nation, but All Elect Remnant Jews Will Still Be Saved, until the "fullness" of all Elect Gentiles Will Be Saved, which are both Accomplished by The End of The World, when Jesus Comes in Judgment at The Comsumation of The Age and End of our Present Earth.