Romans 11

[glad4mercy]

You have a mystery to implant in there that I don't want to hear it.

paul stated clearly what the mystery was. Romans 11:25 to 27. And verses 28 and following tell us who this mystery is about. The ones who are enemies on account of the Gospel but are beloved on account of election due to the promises made to the patriarchs

and God used their blindness to include the Gentiles, but once the fulness of the Gentiles are come, the blindness is removed

you all need to let the text say what it says, and stop eisegeting based on your traditions.

 

[kyredneck]

They will not be saved by DNA, they will be saved by faith. Same as always. Therefore, what Romans 11:25-27 says about the Israelites of Romans 11:28-29 is not based on DNA. Rather it is based on the covenant God made with the Fathers

But, is not DNA, "Israel after the flesh", how you're identifying 'the Israelites of Romans 11:28-29'?

 

[glad4mercy]

But, is not DNA, "Israel after the flesh", how you're identifying 'the Israelites of Romans 11:28-29'?

not me, Paul. Read Romans 11:28 and tell me who he is talking about.

also, who is the question in Romans 11:11and who is Romans 11:15 talking about?

 

[Alan Gross]

Romans 11:25-27 is speaking of the same Israel that Romans 11:28-29

I can tell that you are kept from exegesis by your traditions,because you said the period of blindness only referred to those who lived back then, and had passed long ago. That is not only incoherant, it flies in the face of what Paul actually said.

so you had the fulness of the Gentiles being completed 2,000 years ago. Makes zero sense

and another guy said the blindness would end at the second coming and it would then be too late. The text says nothing about the second coming or end of the age

you can tell people are not able to accept a passage’s clear meaning when they build house of straw interpretations like saying the fulness of the Gentiles was fulfilled 2,000 years ago

God Reveals that the partial blindness ends at the time all of the Gentile Elect have come to Christ, which is Jesus Second Coming.

Everything is all over then.

The End of The World.

Wasn't at 12 noon, today, but He's Coming

and that is when the fulness of the Gentiles has Come in.

All Elect Have Been Saved.

The Remnant of Israel, too.

It's over.

Consummation.

Judgment.

New Heaven and New Earth.

Nothing special happening about more Jews Being Saved in a bunch, or Jesus Talking to them, Personally, to let us off the hook.

 

[glad4mercy]

God Reveals that the partial blindness ends at the time all of the Gentile Elect have come to Christ, which is Jesus Second Coming.

Everything is all over then.

The End of The World.

Wasn't at 12 noon, today, but He's Coming

and that is when the fulness of the Gentiles has Come in.

All Elect Have Been Saved.

The Remnant of Israel, too.

It's over.

Consummation.

Judgment.

New Heaven and New Earth.

Nothing special happening about more Jews Being Saved in a bunch, or Jesus Talking to them, Personally, to let us off the hook.

sorry, the second coming is not mentioned in the text. The fulness of the Gentiles has to do with when the full number of Gentile elect are gathered. It does not say when the fulness of the elect, which would be at the second coming. It says Israel’s blindness will be removed when the fulness of the Gentiles is come

have you never read the Prophets?

 

[glad4mercy]

God Reveals that the partial blindness ends at the time all of the Gentile Elect have come to Christ, which is Jesus Second Coming.

Everything is all over then.

The End of The World.

Wasn't at 12 noon, today, but He's Coming

and that is when the fulness of the Gentiles has Come in.

All Elect Have Been Saved.

The Remnant of Israel, too.

It's over.

Consummation.

Judgment.

New Heaven and New Earth.

Nothing special happening about more Jews Being Saved in a bunch, or Jesus Talking to them, Personally, to let us off the hook.

Calvin's commentary on Romans 11

That blindness in part, etc. “In part,” I think, refers not simply to time, nor to the number, but means, in a manner, or in a measure; by which expression he intended, as it seems to me, only to qualify a declaration which in itself was severe. Until does not specify the progress or order of time, but signifies the same thing, as though he had said, “That the fullness of the Gentiles,” etc. The meaning then is, — That God had in a manner so blinded Israel, that while they refused the light of the gospel, it might be transferred to the Gentiles, and that these might occupy, as it were, the vacated possession. And so this blindness served the providence of God in furthering the salvation of the Gentiles, which he had designed. And the fullness of the Gentiles is to be taken for a great number: for it was not to be, as before, when a few proselytes connected themselves with the Jews; but such was to be the change, that the Gentiles would form almost the entire body of the Church. (363)

The word for “blindness” is πώρωσις, hardness, callousness, and hence contumacy. “In part,” is generally regarded as having reference both to extent and duration: the hardness did not extend to all the Jews, and it was not to endure, but to continue for a time; and the time is mentioned, “until the fullness of the Gentiles come in.” This is obviously the meaning, and confirmed by the whole context. The attempt of [Grotius ] and [Hammond ], and of some of the Fathers, to confine what is said to the Apostolic times, is wholly irreconcilable with the drift of the whole passage and with facts.

Much as been written on the words , ἄχρις οὖ τὸ πλήρωμα τῶν ἐθνῶν εἰσέλθὟ. That the event was future in the Apostle’s time, (and future still as history proves) is evident, especially from the following verse, “and so all Israel shall be saved.” The plain construction of the passage is, “until the fullness of the Gentiles shall come.” What this “fullness” is to be has been much controverted. But by taking a view of the whole context, without regard to any hypothesis, we shall, with no great difficulty, ascertain its meaning. The “fullness” of the Jews in Romans 11:12, is determined by Romans 11:26; it includes the whole nation. Then the “fullness of the Gentiles” must mean the same thing, the introduction of all nations into the Church. The grafting more particularly signifies profession. It then follows that all nations shall be brought publicly to profess the gospel prior to the removal of the hardness from the whole nation of the Jews. There may be isolated cases of conversion before this event, for “in part” as to extent the hardness is to be: but all shall not be brought to the faith, until the faith spread through the whole world: and the effect of their restoration will be a great revival of vital religion among the professing Gentiles, according to what is said in Romans 11:15. This is clearly the view presented to us in this extraordinary passage, when all its parts are compared with each other.

[Hammond ] tells us, that many of the Fathers wholly denied the future restoration of the Jews, and we are told by [Pareus ] , who mentions some of the same Fathers, that they maintained it. But it appears from the quotations made by the first, that the restoration disallowed was that to their own land, and that the restoration referred to by the latter was restoration to the faith; two things wholly distinct. That “Israel” means exclusively the Jewish nation, was almost the unanimous opinion of the Fathers, according to [Estius ]; and that their future restoration to the faith is here foretold was the sentiment held by [Beza ], [Pareus ], Willet, [Mede ], and others, and is generally held by modern divines. — Ed.

 

[Alan Gross]

paul stated clearly what the mystery was. Romans 11:25 to 27. And verses 28 and following tell us who this mystery is about. The ones who are enemies on account of the Gospel but are beloved on account of election due to the promises made to the patriarchs

and God used their blindness to include the Gentiles, but once the fulness of the Gentiles are come, the blindness is removed

you all need to let the text say what it says, and stop eisegeting based on your traditions.

I see that. It's nice.

That was understood.

Paul shared with his beloved brothers to continue to grow and be sure to not ignore, or abandon the Jews, though, as bad and Providencially Judged by God, Called, "happened", because there was a Chosen Remnant among The Jews.

The Jews blindness, in which they were, at times, darkness, was 'partial'.

So, don't be conceited, Paul told them.

...

And don't assume The Jews' blindness would be 'removed'.

I don't know if he told them that.

The text, by tradition, however says the mystery is "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

No mention of The Judgment of God, with blindness being 'removed'.

"blindness had now befallen the Jews, who had been favoured with a divine revelation, with the knowledge of God, his will and worship;

and none were more blind than those who were called the servants and messengers of the Lord of hosts, as the Scribes and Pharisees, the priests and princes of the Jewish world.

This "blindness" designs their unbelief, the hardness of their hearts, and darkness of their understandings with respect to God himself, whom they knew not in Christ; not as the Father of Christ; nor even the perfections of his nature, particularly his righteousness; which was the reason of their setting up their own righteousness, and of their non-submission to the righteousness of Christ:

they were blind as to the Messiah; they knew him not, when he came; they saw no beauty and comeliness in him; could not discern the characters of him in Jesus, though they were so manifest; and rejected him notwithstanding the clear evidence of his ministry and miracles.

They were in the dark about the sense of the prophecies of the Old Testament; a vail was upon their hearts when they read them, so that they understood them not, and could not see their accomplishment in Christ; they were even ignorant of the law, the spiritual nature, true use, and right end and scope of it;

and it is no wonder that the Gospel should be hidden from them.

This blindness "happened" to them not by chance, but befell them by the decree, and according to the will of God, who hardens whom he pleases; and according to various predictions in the Old Testament, cited in Matthew 13:14; and in righteous judgment, for since they liked not to retain God and his Christ in their knowledge, it was but just in God to give them up to reprobate minds, to judicial blindness, and hardness of heart: but then this blindness only happened to them "in part";

not that it was only in some measure or some degree, for it was total, they were darkness itself, and had no spiritual and evangelic light at all on whom it fell; but that this blindness was not general with respect to persons, there were some few, a seed, a remnant, that were delivered from it, though the far greater part of the nation were involved in it, and continue in it to this day; and will do, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in":

that is, till the whole number of God's elect among them, be called and brought into the Gospel.... "

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

 

[glad4mercy]

I see that. It's nice.

That was understood.

Paul shared with his beloved brothers to continue to grow and be sure to not ignore, or abandon the Jews, though, as bad and Providencially Judged by God, Called, "happened", because there was a Chosen Remnant among The Jews.

The Jews blindness, in which they were, at times, darkness, was 'partial'.

So, don't be conceited, Paul told them.

...

And don't assume The Jews' blindness would be 'removed'.

I don't know if he told them that.

The text, by tradition, however says the mystery is "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

No mention of The Judgment of God, with blindness being 'removed'.

"blindness had now befallen the Jews, who had been favoured with a divine revelation, with the knowledge of God, his will and worship;

and none were more blind than those who were called the servants and messengers of the Lord of hosts, as the Scribes and Pharisees, the priests and princes of the Jewish world.

This "blindness" designs their unbelief, the hardness of their hearts, and darkness of their understandings with respect to God himself, whom they knew not in Christ; not as the Father of Christ; nor even the perfections of his nature, particularly his righteousness; which was the reason of their setting up their own righteousness, and of their non-submission to the righteousness of Christ:

they were blind as to the Messiah; they knew him not, when he came; they saw no beauty and comeliness in him; could not discern the characters of him in Jesus, though they were so manifest; and rejected him notwithstanding the clear evidence of his ministry and miracles.

They were in the dark about the sense of the prophecies of the Old Testament; a vail was upon their hearts when they read them, so that they understood them not, and could not see their accomplishment in Christ; they were even ignorant of the law, the spiritual nature, true use, and right end and scope of it;

and it is no wonder that the Gospel should be hidden from them.

This blindness "happened" to them not by chance, but befell them by the decree, and according to the will of God, who hardens whom he pleases; and according to various predictions in the Old Testament, cited in Matthew 13:14; and in righteous judgment, for since they liked not to retain God and his Christ in their knowledge, it was but just in God to give them up to reprobate minds, to judicial blindness, and hardness of heart: but then this blindness only happened to them "in part";

not that it was only in some measure or some degree, for it was total, they were darkness itself, and had no spiritual and evangelic light at all on whom it fell; but that this blindness was not general with respect to persons, there were some few, a seed, a remnant, that were delivered from it, though the far greater part of the nation were involved in it, and continue in it to this day; and will do, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in":

that is, till the whole number of God's elect among them, be called and brought into the Gospel.... "

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

I like this simple and concise explanation better...

{13} For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your {b} own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be {c} come in.

(13) The blindness of the Jews is neither so universal that the Lord has no elect in that nation, neither will it be continual: for there will be a time in which they also (as the prophets have foretold) will effectually embrace that which they now so stubbornly for the most part reject and refuse.
(b) That you are not proud within yourselves.
(c) Into the Church.

Geneva Study Bible

 

[glad4mercy]

I see that. It's nice.

That was understood.

Paul shared with his beloved brothers to continue to grow and be sure to not ignore, or abandon the Jews, though, as bad and Providencially Judged by God, Called, "happened", because there was a Chosen Remnant among The Jews.

The Jews blindness, in which they were, at times, darkness, was 'partial'.

So, don't be conceited, Paul told them.

...

And don't assume The Jews' blindness would be 'removed'.

I don't know if he told them that.

The text, by tradition, however says the mystery is "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

No mention of The Judgment of God, with blindness being 'removed'.

"blindness had now befallen the Jews, who had been favoured with a divine revelation, with the knowledge of God, his will and worship;

and none were more blind than those who were called the servants and messengers of the Lord of hosts, as the Scribes and Pharisees, the priests and princes of the Jewish world.

This "blindness" designs their unbelief, the hardness of their hearts, and darkness of their understandings with respect to God himself, whom they knew not in Christ; not as the Father of Christ; nor even the perfections of his nature, particularly his righteousness; which was the reason of their setting up their own righteousness, and of their non-submission to the righteousness of Christ:

they were blind as to the Messiah; they knew him not, when he came; they saw no beauty and comeliness in him; could not discern the characters of him in Jesus, though they were so manifest; and rejected him notwithstanding the clear evidence of his ministry and miracles.

They were in the dark about the sense of the prophecies of the Old Testament; a vail was upon their hearts when they read them, so that they understood them not, and could not see their accomplishment in Christ; they were even ignorant of the law, the spiritual nature, true use, and right end and scope of it;

and it is no wonder that the Gospel should be hidden from them.

This blindness "happened" to them not by chance, but befell them by the decree, and according to the will of God, who hardens whom he pleases; and according to various predictions in the Old Testament, cited in Matthew 13:14; and in righteous judgment, for since they liked not to retain God and his Christ in their knowledge, it was but just in God to give them up to reprobate minds, to judicial blindness, and hardness of heart: but then this blindness only happened to them "in part";

not that it was only in some measure or some degree, for it was total, they were darkness itself, and had no spiritual and evangelic light at all on whom it fell; but that this blindness was not general with respect to persons, there were some few, a seed, a remnant, that were delivered from it, though the far greater part of the nation were involved in it, and continue in it to this day; and will do, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in":

that is, till the whole number of God's elect among them, be called and brought into the Gospel.... "

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

WHY did you exclude THIS PART of Gill's commentary?!You cut it off before it got to this part.

which in the latter day will be very great; when the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea; when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ; and the abundance of the sea shall be converted, and the forces of the Gentiles shall come to the church, and multitudes of them shall flock thither, as doves to their windows: and since the blindness of the Jews is not yet removed, it seems plain that the full number of God's chosen ones among the Gentiles is not yet completed in regeneration; for as soon as ever they are all called and brought in, the vail will be taken away from the Jews, and they will be turned unto the Lord.

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

 

[glad4mercy]

WHY did you exclude THIS PART of Gill's commentary?!You cut it off before it got to this part.

which in the latter day will be very great; when the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea; when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ; and the abundance of the sea shall be converted, and the forces of the Gentiles shall come to the church, and multitudes of them shall flock thither, as doves to their windows: and since the blindness of the Jews is not yet removed, it seems plain that the full number of God's chosen ones among the Gentiles is not yet completed in regeneration; for as soon as ever they are all called and brought in, the vail will be taken away from the Jews, and they will be turned unto the Lord.

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

I did not come to my position reading commentaries, but by reading scripture. But it appears that Calvin and Gill (two quite different traditions) came to the same conclusion I did.

 

[Alan Gross]

sorry, the second coming is not mentioned in the text. The fulness of the Gentiles has to do with when the full number of Gentile elect are gathered. It does not say when the fulness of the elect, which would be at the second coming. It says Israel’s blindness will be removed when the fulness of the Gentiles is come

have you never read the Prophets?

When all the Gentiles are Saved, it's over, man.

No 'removal'.

Oh, I know the thing, now.

The Prophets often speak of the Current Age they are in, and may go right into alluding to The New Testament Age, and, sometimes, The World to Come, in Glory.

So, those words have to be parsed.

"Israel", there, by the Prophet does very often speak of The Spiritual seed of Abraham.

I am a Spiritual Jew.

Yes, if Spiritual Israel is not distinqushed from the apostate, Natural Israel perversions of Old Testament Christianity, then the assumption God is Going to Bless the Jews into a Frenzy, sometime in their future, is going to be enough to mess up a train wreak.

God Has some Bice Prophecies concerning what He is Actually Going to Do.

With "The Nation of Israel", as natural Jews, in big special way?

Yeah, Eternal Salvation for the Remnant.

That's Enormous for those souls, as individuals, but a large move, by God, on a bunch of Jews, is a total misconception of the Prophets, many times, when they speak of" Israel", etc.

Spiritual Israel.

Jews and Gentiles in the Pesent Age and The Blessing Promised of Eternal Bliss.

 

[Alan Gross]

WHY did you exclude THIS PART of Gill's commentary?!You cut it off before it got to this part.

which in the latter day will be very great; when the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea; when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ; and the abundance of the sea shall be converted, and the forces of the Gentiles shall come to the church, and multitudes of them shall flock thither, as doves to their windows: and since the blindness of the Jews is not yet removed, it seems plain that the full number of God's chosen ones among the Gentiles is not yet completed in regeneration; for as soon as ever they are all called and brought in, the vail will be taken away from the Jews, and they will be turned unto the Lord.

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Because it is not true.

 

[Alan Gross]

WHY did you exclude THIS PART of Gill's commentary?!You cut it off before it got to this part.

which in the latter day will be very great; when the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea; when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ; and the abundance of the sea shall be converted, and the forces of the Gentiles shall come to the church, and multitudes of them shall flock thither, as doves to their windows: and since the blindness of the Jews is not yet removed, it seems plain that the full number of God's chosen ones among the Gentiles is not yet completed in regeneration; for as soon as ever they are all called and brought in, the vail will be taken away from the Jews, and they will be turned unto the Lord.

Romans 11 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

If Gill or anyone had Scripture for it, I'd take a look at it.

The vail is Taken Away from the Jews, as they go along and the Gentiles and Remnant Jews are all Saved, in The New Testament Era, before Jesus Returns.

To make a sequence for Gentiles then blindness Removed, afterward, isn't in there.

The blindness is 'Removed', from the Jews Saved, as a Remnant.

That is Glorious for them.

 

[glad4mercy]

Because it is not true.

.
So you put part of Gill's commentary and leave the part out you disagree with? I wouldn't do that personally.

 

[glad4mercy]

When all the Gentiles are Saved, it's over, man.

No 'removal'.

Oh, I know the thing, now.

The Prophets often speak of the Current Age they are in, and may go right into alluding to The New Testament Age, and, sometimes, The World to Come, in Glory.

So, those words have to be parsed.

"Israel", there, by the Prophet does very often speak of The Spiritual seed of Abraham.

I am a Spiritual Jew.

Yes, if Spiritual Israel is not distinqushed from the apostate, Natural Israel perversions of Old Testament Christianity, then the assumption God is Going to Bless the Jews into a Frenzy, sometime in their future, is going to be enough to mess up a train wreak.

God Has some Bice Prophecies concerning what He is Actually Going to Do.

With "The Nation of Israel", as natural Jews, in big special way?

Yeah, Eternal Salvation for the Remnant.

That's Enormous for those souls, as individuals, but a large move, by God, on a bunch of Jews, is a total misconception of the Prophets, many times, when they speak of" Israel", etc.

Spiritual Israel.

Jews and Gentiles in the Pesent Age and The Blessing Promised of Eternal Bliss.

The message of Romans 11 is clear to everyone who reads it without "tradition goggles" on. That would include Calvin, Gill, and others. I was SURPRISED that Calvin had basically the same view on Romans 11 as I do, I thought he would have had a different view, so I went online to see what his view was. Nope. He understood Romans 11 basically the same way I do. BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR when you read it and take it for what it says

 

[glad4mercy]

If Gill or anyone had Scripture for it, I'd take a look at it.

The vail is Taken Away from the Jews, as they go along and the Gentiles and Remnant Jews are all Saved, in The New Testament Era, before Jesus Returns.

To make a sequence for Gentiles then blindness Removed, afterward, isn't in there.

The blindness is 'Removed', from the Jews Saved, as a Remnant.

That is Glorious for them.

This explanation, which includes elements of what I have said and elements of what others have said, (I think) is a good interpretation of the text.; Not every ethnic jew will be saved, but the Holy Spirit will be poured on Israel as a corporate body.

SEE also Zechariah 12:10

As we have noted in our last few studies, Paul foresees that the widespread Jewish opposition to the gospel will not last forever. At present, there is a “partial hardening” of ethnic Jews against Jesus (v. 25)—but not a full one, as Paul, Peter, and Jewish Christians throughout history testify to the fact that the Lord always has a remnant of believing ethnic Jews in the church (vv. 1-6). This hardening will occur “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” (v. 25). At some point, the number of redeemed Gentiles will reach its God-appointed fullness. Then, and only then, will the pervasive hardening of Israel be lifted. Through the hardening of Israel as a corporate body (but not every ethnic Jew) and the salvation of the fullness of elect Gentiles, Israel as a corporate body (but not every ethnic Jew) will be saved. Dr. R.C. Sproul writes in his commentary Romans, “The full complement of God’s elect from [ethnic] Israel will be saved and … this will come in a new redemptive-historical visitation by the Holy Spirit when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.” https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/israels-temporary-hardening/

 

[glad4mercy]

If Gill or anyone had Scripture for it, I'd take a look at it.

The vail is Taken Away from the Jews, as they go along and the Gentiles and Remnant Jews are all Saved, in The New Testament Era, before Jesus Returns.

To make a sequence for Gentiles then blindness Removed, afterward, isn't in there.

The blindness is 'Removed', from the Jews Saved, as a Remnant.

That is Glorious for them.

Romans 11:25 and verses following is the scripture that we have.

 

[glad4mercy]

But, is not DNA, "Israel after the flesh", how you're identifying 'the Israelites of Romans 11:28-29'?

Calvin's commentary on Romans 11

That blindness in part, etc. “In part,” I think, refers not simply to time, nor to the number, but means, in a manner, or in a measure; by which expression he intended, as it seems to me, only to qualify a declaration which in itself was severe. Until does not specify the progress or order of time, but signifies the same thing, as though he had said, “That the fullness of the Gentiles,” etc. The meaning then is, — That God had in a manner so blinded Israel, that while they refused the light of the gospel, it might be transferred to the Gentiles, and that these might occupy, as it were, the vacated possession. And so this blindness served the providence of God in furthering the salvation of the Gentiles, which he had designed. And the fullness of the Gentiles is to be taken for a great number: for it was not to be, as before, when a few proselytes connected themselves with the Jews; but such was to be the change, that the Gentiles would form almost the entire body of the Church. (363)

The word for “blindness” is πώρωσις, hardness, callousness, and hence contumacy. “In part,” is generally regarded as having reference both to extent and duration: the hardness did not extend to all the Jews, and it was not to endure, but to continue for a time; and the time is mentioned, “until the fullness of the Gentiles come in.” This is obviously the meaning, and confirmed by the whole context. The attempt of [Grotius ] and [Hammond ], and of some of the Fathers, to confine what is said to the Apostolic times, is wholly irreconcilable with the drift of the whole passage and with facts.

Much as been written on the words , ἄχρις οὖ τὸ πλήρωμα τῶν ἐθνῶν εἰσέλθὟ. That the event was future in the Apostle’s time, (and future still as history proves) is evident, especially from the following verse, “and so all Israel shall be saved.” The plain construction of the passage is, “until the fullness of the Gentiles shall come.” What this “fullness” is to be has been much controverted. But by taking a view of the whole context, without regard to any hypothesis, we shall, with no great difficulty, ascertain its meaning. The “fullness” of the Jews in Romans 11:12, is determined by Romans 11:26; it includes the whole nation. Then the “fullness of the Gentiles” must mean the same thing, the introduction of all nations into the Church. The grafting more particularly signifies profession. It then follows that all nations shall be brought publicly to profess the gospel prior to the removal of the hardness from the whole nation of the Jews. There may be isolated cases of conversion before this event, for “in part” as to extent the hardness is to be: but all shall not be brought to the faith, until the faith spread through the whole world: and the effect of their restoration will be a great revival of vital religion among the professing Gentiles, according to what is said in Romans 11:15. This is clearly the view presented to us in this extraordinary passage, when all its parts are compared with each other.

[Hammond ] tells us, that many of the Fathers wholly denied the future restoration of the Jews, and we are told by [Pareus ] , who mentions some of the same Fathers, that they maintained it. But it appears from the quotations made by the first, that the restoration disallowed was that to their own land, and that the restoration referred to by the latter was restoration to the faith; two things wholly distinct. That “Israel” means exclusively the Jewish nation, was almost the unanimous opinion of the Fathers, according to [Estius ]; and that their future restoration to the faith is here foretold was the sentiment held by [Beza ], [Pareus ], Willet, [Mede ], and others, and is generally held by modern divines. — Ed.

 

[glad4mercy]

But the broken off are not Israel.

1689 as in 1689 Baptist confession of faith? My position is fully compatible with Calvinism.

Calvin's commentary on Romans 11

That blindness in part, etc. “In part,” I think, refers not simply to time, nor to the number, but means, in a manner, or in a measure; by which expression he intended, as it seems to me, only to qualify a declaration which in itself was severe. Until does not specify the progress or order of time, but signifies the same thing, as though he had said, “That the fullness of the Gentiles,” etc. The meaning then is, — That God had in a manner so blinded Israel, that while they refused the light of the gospel, it might be transferred to the Gentiles, and that these might occupy, as it were, the vacated possession. And so this blindness served the providence of God in furthering the salvation of the Gentiles, which he had designed. And the fullness of the Gentiles is to be taken for a great number: for it was not to be, as before, when a few proselytes connected themselves with the Jews; but such was to be the change, that the Gentiles would form almost the entire body of the Church. (363)

The word for “blindness” is πώρωσις, hardness, callousness, and hence contumacy. “In part,” is generally regarded as having reference both to extent and duration: the hardness did not extend to all the Jews, and it was not to endure, but to continue for a time; and the time is mentioned, “until the fullness of the Gentiles come in.” This is obviously the meaning, and confirmed by the whole context. The attempt of [Grotius ] and [Hammond ], and of some of the Fathers, to confine what is said to the Apostolic times, is wholly irreconcilable with the drift of the whole passage and with facts.

Much as been written on the words , ἄχρις οὖ τὸ πλήρωμα τῶν ἐθνῶν εἰσέλθὟ. That the event was future in the Apostle’s time, (and future still as history proves) is evident, especially from the following verse, “and so all Israel shall be saved.” The plain construction of the passage is, “until the fullness of the Gentiles shall come.” What this “fullness” is to be has been much controverted. But by taking a view of the whole context, without regard to any hypothesis, we shall, with no great difficulty, ascertain its meaning. The “fullness” of the Jews in Romans 11:12, is determined by Romans 11:26; it includes the whole nation. Then the “fullness of the Gentiles” must mean the same thing, the introduction of all nations into the Church. The grafting more particularly signifies profession. It then follows that all nations shall be brought publicly to profess the gospel prior to the removal of the hardness from the whole nation of the Jews. There may be isolated cases of conversion before this event, for “in part” as to extent the hardness is to be: but all shall not be brought to the faith, until the faith spread through the whole world: and the effect of their restoration will be a great revival of vital religion among the professing Gentiles, according to what is said in Romans 11:15. This is clearly the view presented to us in this extraordinary passage, when all its parts are compared with each other.

[Hammond ] tells us, that many of the Fathers wholly denied the future restoration of the Jews, and we are told by [Pareus ] , who mentions some of the same Fathers, that they maintained it. But it appears from the quotations made by the first, that the restoration disallowed was that to their own land, and that the restoration referred to by the latter was restoration to the faith; two things wholly distinct. That “Israel” means exclusively the Jewish nation, was almost the unanimous opinion of the Fathers, according to [Estius ]; and that their future restoration to the faith is here foretold was the sentiment held by [Beza ], [Pareus ], Willet, [Mede ], and others, and is generally held by modern divines. — Ed.

 

[Alan Gross]

Calvin's commentary on Romans 11

That blindness in part, etc. “In part,” I think, refers not simply to time, nor to the number, but means, in a manner, or in a measure; by which expression he intended, as it seems to me, only to qualify a declaration which in itself was severe. Until does not specify the progress or order of time, but signifies the same thing, as though he had said, “That the fullness of the Gentiles,” etc. The meaning then is, — That God had in a manner so blinded Israel, that while they refused the light of the gospel, it might be transferred to the Gentiles, and that these might occupy, as it were, the vacated possession. And so this blindness served the providence of God in furthering the salvation of the Gentiles, which he had designed. And the fullness of the Gentiles is to be taken for a great number: for it was not to be, as before, when a few proselytes connected themselves with the Jews; but such was to be the change, that the Gentiles would form almost the entire body of the Church. (363)

The word for “blindness” is πώρωσις, hardness, callousness, and hence contumacy. “In part,” is generally regarded as having reference both to extent and duration: the hardness did not extend to all the Jews, and it was not to endure, but to continue for a time; and the time is mentioned, “until the fullness of the Gentiles come in.” This is obviously the meaning, and confirmed by the whole context. The attempt of [Grotius ] and [Hammond ], and of some of the Fathers, to confine what is said to the Apostolic times, is wholly irreconcilable with the drift of the whole passage and with facts.

Much as been written on the words , ἄχρις οὖ τὸ πλήρωμα τῶν ἐθνῶν εἰσέλθὟ. That the event was future in the Apostle’s time, (and future still as history proves) is evident, especially from the following verse, “and so all Israel shall be saved.” The plain construction of the passage is, “until the fullness of the Gentiles shall come.” What this “fullness” is to be has been much controverted. But by taking a view of the whole context, without regard to any hypothesis, we shall, with no great difficulty, ascertain its meaning. The “fullness” of the Jews in Romans 11:12, is determined by Romans 11:26; it includes the whole nation. Then the “fullness of the Gentiles” must mean the same thing, the introduction of all nations into the Church. The grafting more particularly signifies profession. It then follows that all nations shall be brought publicly to profess the gospel prior to the removal of the hardness from the whole nation of the Jews. There may be isolated cases of conversion before this event, for “in part” as to extent the hardness is to be: but all shall not be brought to the faith, until the faith spread through the whole world: and the effect of their restoration will be a great revival of vital religion among the professing Gentiles, according to what is said in Romans 11:15. This is clearly the view presented to us in this extraordinary passage, when all its parts are compared with each other.

[Hammond ] tells us, that many of the Fathers wholly denied the future restoration of the Jews, and we are told by [Pareus ] , who mentions some of the same Fathers, that they maintained it. But it appears from the quotations made by the first, that the restoration disallowed was that to their own land, and that the restoration referred to by the latter was restoration to the faith; two things wholly distinct. That “Israel” means exclusively the Jewish nation, was almost the unanimous opinion of the Fathers, according to [Estius ]; and that their future restoration to the faith is here foretold was the sentiment held by [Beza ], [Pareus ], Willet, [Mede ], and others, and is generally held by modern divines. — Ed.

Glad has a Calvin reference.

What about.

I'll read it, if I can.

First time I've even seen 'Calvin's' words, other than a couple of sentences here on The Board.

I have more against Calvin than any of you.

Let's see how he handles The Book, then.