The misleading arguments against Free-Will

Revmitchell, can you explain how you view the doctrine of "calling" or "drawing", if you see them as the same, and how Holy Spirit is involved? Or, do you see the gospel alone as God's method of "calling" or "drawing"?

Peace to you

 

So, you just want to express your opinion and anything or anyone who expresses a different view is not tolerated. At least now I know how you think a debate works.

 

God does not place his gift of salvation "hopefully in a well-trafficked area" where people might hope to find it. Nor does God place his gift of salvation in a "certain area" (a static place) where people can look it over like merchandise.

Instead, God has commanded his followers to go out and tell the WHOLE WORLD about his gift of salvation. The gift of salvation and everything we need to know about it can be found in a written account, the Bible. Moreover, God has seen to it that the Bible is readily available to just about anybody, or that the Bible is easily given to anybody. It's not placed somewhere waiting to be discovered.

So your two metaphors of how free-willers and semi-pelagians view the gift of salvation is flawed. (And once again reeks of mind reading and assuming someone believes a certain way.)

Finally, your monergist metaphor is wrong because in this illustration the gift recipient is completely inert--they don't participate in receiving the gift at all, There is no provision for the possibility that the intended recipient will reject the gift.

You claim that God custom crafted the gift of salvation for individuals from before the foundation of the world. Once again, I will ask you why does Paul say that he received this gift before other believers? (Romans 16:7) Why does the Bible say that, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Cor 1:21) if they were saved before preachers even existed?

 

In all fairness Rev, the sound Calvinists on the board are not the ones doing this.

 

Irrelevant

 

The Bible is not available to millions and millions of people. They are unreached. They don't know who Jesus is. They will die in their sins without ever hearing about Jesus.
Second, many people who are mentally handicapped will never comprehend the good news. They will not know of this gift.
Has God failed them all by relying on humans who haven't got the message into every place possible?

No mind reading necessary. The choice to open the gift to which they are drawn, by God, is still left up to the person. Open it. Use it if you wish. Throw it away if you wish.

Indeed, there is no possibility that the person will reject the gift. Every child, when given a gift with their name on it from their Father, will rip into that present as soon as they receive it from their Father. They won't question it and reject it. How much more does God the Father know how to give good gifts?

In Romans, Paul is merely looking at his lifetime and seeing that these men had received their gifts earlier than he had.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

Read the whole passage and see what God says. Notice God's will destroys the perishing and God's will saves those who believe. It is the power of God that saves.i

1 Corinthians 1:18-21 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

 

Free Will is a work of the flesh. Law depends on it. People are judged by how they use it. But the gospel is not law. You must transpose the gospel into law (a false gospel) and turn grace into works before free will can become a means of salvation.

This means salvation is not a supernatural work of God. But a legalistic work of the flesh. And the flesh cannot discern spiritual truth. So it only chooses a Christ that is acceptable to the sinful flesh. And finds the biblical Christ repugnant to the senses.

 

It deals with the original post disproving the "straw man" claim. How so? Because it acknowledges free will as the basis for responsibility in every day life. But it also shows free will cannot understand spiritual truth. So it only acts on what it perceives to be truth.

 

Here is the problem with this whole post. This paragraph is filled with untruth. Election IS individualistic. It is not God looking down a corridor to see who would choose Him because we know from Romans that NOBODY would choose Him. God determined that decision by basis of his own good pleasure. Romans 9.

 

How is it not dealt with on the "straw man" charge? Law depends on free will. The gospel is not Law but grace.

 

Then what is the point?

 

Of course you think that. It is clear none of you understand the Reformed position. At least not in what you post.