Featured Romans 11 Continuation

God choose out for Himself in OT time a faithful remnant, they did not seek God to save them first, but He sought to save them out, and that was true back in Acts, and in each generation of the Jews since that time!

 

Who gave to that remnant the faith to believe, and the regenerated heart and minds to believe?

 

There is a wording like, 'God chooses believers (Jews or Gentiles)'

and it is connected to some other wording, like:
based on crediting their faith as righteousness.
...

That wording is not Biblical.

The only benefit that the sentancecould have:

"God chooses believers (Jews or Gentiles) based on crediting their faith as righteousness'",

is to place an absolute negative in front of it:

It is ABSOLUTELY FAKE, FALSE, and PHONY to suggest, "God chooses believers (Jews or Gentiles) based on crediting their faith as righteousness.'

...

God is not mocked.

Those who add to God' s Word Will Be Judged. by God.

 

I hear a lot of people in the NOSAS camp quote Romans 11:17-24 to try and prove that a saved person can lose their salvation. I would like to hear from people in the OSAS camp explain their interpretation of Romans 11:17-24 in keeping with OSAS.

 

Sinners have no inherit faith in us, as the faith that we have was a gift by God towards us in order to save us! No one can boast before God and say" look, I decided to put faith in Jesus myself, unlike those who rejected him and kept going to hell"

 

Those whom God has elected to eternal life in Christ shall ALL be saved!

 

In post #6, you said, "It appears that blood-line Jews under the Old Covenant start out as part of the tree metaphorically, and then are broken off for unbelief, whereas non-Jews start out separated under the New Covenant, but are grafted into the tree based on their faith being credited as righteousness by God." Verse 22 is where the NOSAS folks point to and say, "that's where they lost their salvation." 22 - Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. As far as posting a link to a view, there are a number of websites that would say Romans 11:22 equates to a loss of salvation and would also say under the new covenant. I'm yet to hear anyone say that these Gentile believers are losing their salvation under the old covenant.

That makes sense. (Romans 11:1-8, 25-27)

 

How unfortunate not to recognize that the possessive personal pronoun aligned with faith does not present the originator and the authority to grant as an unmerited gift such faith.

For example, OUR faith, YOUR faith, MY faith... does not mean the faith ORIGINATED as innate in the human.

Rather the Scriptures present saving faith is a gift measured out by God to every one who is to believe for a specific purpose.

As a RESULT, the gift is then possessed by that person to be expressed as OUR, YOUR, MY, ... but the gift did not ORIGINATE with nor is it innate in any human.

It is also unfortunate that the clinging to some human innate faith that is somehow capable to attract God's attention so that God can credit the human faith as righteous enough has gone to the point of distorting the truth of Scriptures.

As typical of one shown for years the error of this thinking, rather than realizing and recanting of error, continues in the intrenchment to the point that systematically gathered inappropriately used Scripture verses are used to bolster the views.

This obliges focus upon what is considered the error of some other scheme and makeing large demeaning claims toward others, yet has no need to bring correction to himself.

Such it is when error is repeatedly taught and obstinacy shown toward any attempts to correct.

Here are the Scriptures based (Scriptures shown in previous posts and threads) facts in which Van denies:

1) The faith a believer has was granted to that specific person for a specific purpose of which God has commissioned.

2) The faith a believer has is not from their own self initiation for there is no righteousness to be found in any human.

3) God "credits OUR faith" (that is that faith given by Him to believers) because He is the "justifier" and the faith granted the believer by God is sufficient to the needs and purpose intended.

4) the possessive personal pronouns used are indicators not of where the faith originated, but of the acknowledgement of personal possession. The faith is specific to that person, not just some innate human contrivance that supposedly can be activated at will and whim. ​

 

Amazing the "deflection" engaged by this poster, yet would proclaim that is what others do.

Others and myself have quoted this poster, yet he dares deny his own posts.

Look carefully at how he words this from the post: "His faith, your faith, and my faith means what it says, and does not mean his God gifted faith..."

This is in DIRECT conflict with Ephesians 2:8. FAITH is the gift given by the grace of God (grace is the unmerited favor of God that grants such faith).

The righteous live by faith, but not that corrupted human faith made imperfect by sin passed by Adam. Rather, NOTHING of this old nature will enter that which is heavenly. Believers are NEW CREATION, created in Christ Jesus, and that includes all the attributes of our Savior (faith, will, ...). Not a single element associated with the fall and sin will enter heaven.


The poster would actually put forth that humankind can of their own volition place human faith (which is merely hope) in such a manner as to attract God's attention. God then will examine the faith to see if it is worthy of being credited.

Though this poster has often and many times been shown the error(s), he continues to pursue this thinking in an attempt to refute the irresistible grace of God.

It is as if that poster is saying that mortal humankind can prevent God from raining on the just and unjust, or as God ask Job, determine the time of animal procreation by mere thought.

This poster would so exalt humankind as to present that humankind out of their own freedom will can not only express that which is acceptable to God, but prevent others from entering heaven. He inappropriately uses Matthew as his prooftext not understanding that Matthew's focus was primarily to the Jews, that he used terms and thinking related specifically to the Jews and the culture of the day, and that by placing some Gentile concept into the passage is completely unwarranted and brings error.

Don't be swayed into this poster's view(s), they are a mixed bag of truth and error.

 

At least one quote has been given in other threads. But, has there been even a slight sign of repentance and recantation? No just deflection by claims such as that shown.

Does this person state that the new creation includes a new will and Godly faith? Or does this person continue to present that something left over from the old nature is going to enter heaven?

See how deflection from being exposed to error continues?

Again, quoted in at least one other threads. But, notice the false insinuation is proposed as a deflection. Rather than a repentance and recantation.

See, this is the very proof of what is stated above. The poster requires one to consider that the gift of faith given by God is the human faith one is born with. As sinful and unable to attain righteousness as any other human attributes. Rather than acknowledge that saving faith, that which God grants to all who He chooses, is a gift from God. That as a gift given, the faith is our faith, your faith, my faith, ...

Again the poster presents the possessive personal pronouns as if James is presenting something of a human attribute faith. He is not.

In fact, James is showing that faith (the assurance) from God is with purpose and meaning and is active in the head, heart and hands of a believer. That human faith (mere hope so) is all talk with little in the manner of walk.

See how the poster becomes confused and must ask questions that are meant to confuse others? Because the poster does not recognize the significance of the gift of faith referred to in Ephesians, but makes such a faith as a innate (born with) human attribute, then the poster cannot properly distinguish what James is sharing concerning the faith from God that is with purpose, meaning, and compels the believer to live and work as God would guide, in comparison to that failed sin ravaged hope (faith) in which is agenda filled and at best guarding against disappointment. Such faith has no assurance nor substance of and from God.

Smear?

Really?

It is nothing other than a call for repentance and recantation of error.

The topic of the thread may be Romans 11, but the poster brought up irresistible grace, and brought up the possessive pronouns, and has again been shown to be in error.

Perhaps the grace of God will be given to repent and recant.

Here is a great verse in which Paul uses that which God grants to us that which is possessed by us and is expressed through us because It comes from Him. It is one of the times we see Paul's type of prayer:

14For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

20Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.​

What is the "power at work within us" if it is not that Holy Spirit?

To what purpose is such strengthening if it is not that Christ may dwell in your heart?

How is the Christ brought to dwell in the heart if it is not through that faith which brings comprehendible assurance of that which cannot be measured and surpasses knowledge?

Does such faith even sound human like?

Does human faith ever bring unity? Here is the God given faith in action:

13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,e to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,​

How about Pauls statement concerning where faith comes? He is very specific:

4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.​

Human faith is dead. Human faith is not responsive to God.

Again, the passage is clear.
God "made us alive."
God "raised us up."
God "seated us."
Why? "To show the immeasurable riches of His grace toward us" and "for good works."
How? "Saved through faith, NOT OF YOUR OWN DOING: it is the gift of God."


Now, I don't know if the reader understands how desperately wrong Van is on this matter, but certainly the reader understands that Paul's message to the Ephesians is without error.