3rdAngel
Member
You do not believe the scriptures of the bible are God's Word brother?
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Grace Plus Law.
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
You do not believe the scriptures of the bible are God's Word brother?
37818
Well-Known Member
FACT. The Sabbath was not revealed to man until after the fall and was given to Moses. Genesis.
37818
Well-Known Member
LOL. I know it is, because I know God Himself, John 17:3. And I could not honestly not know God.
3rdAngel
Member
You are confused and that is not true. JESUS says that he made the SABBATH for mankind *MARK 2:27-28. The SABBATH was made before the the fall, before sin, before Moses, before Israel and before Jews *GENESIS 2:1-3
3rdAngel
Member
Than if you know God why do you not believe Gods' Word?
1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
37818
Well-Known Member
And was not revealed until it was given to Moses. There is no evidence to the contrary.
3rdAngel
Member
Nope before the written Word of God at Mt Sinai was the Spoken Word of God. The evidence is God's Word perhaps you do not know it? Do you want to see it?
37818
Well-Known Member
You do not know what you are taking about. My answer was and is I believe God's word because I know Him. John 12:50; John 13:34; 1 John 3:23; 2 John 1:9.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Sure.
I'd like to see the 4th commandment stated anywhere in God's word before Exodus 20:8-11, where the Lord tells all men to remember it and to keep it holy...instead of Israel.
Secondly, since the Law was our schoolmaster to bring the believer to Christ:
" Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." ( Galatians 3:24 )
...how does keeping the Law of Moses result in a person being saved?
Do you believe that keeping the Law is necessary to be saved?
How about just the Sabbath?
Do I need to keep the Sabbath to gain salvation, or to keep salvation?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
@3rdAngel
" Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." ( Galatians 5:1-6 ).
" Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." ( Galatians 5:1-6 ).
3rdAngel
Member
JESUS says you shall know them by their fruit *JOHN 15:1-10. What do you think 1 JOHN 2:3-4 means?
3rdAngel
Member
Agreed we are not saved by "CIRCUMCISION". *ACTS 15:1-30
37818
Well-Known Member
Psalms 19:1-4; Romans 10:17-18, ". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." So the written word says, Deuteronomy 8:3, ". . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. . . ."
3rdAngel
Member
Absolutely, now if I only share God's Word with you why do you not believe it? How do we hear the Word of God? - It is by the spoken Word. The scriptures you provide here only support what I have been sharing with you.
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37818
Well-Known Member
As Jesus explianed what He meant, John 12:50, ". . . And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. . . ." And further taught, John 13:34, ". . . A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. . . ." The Apostle John summarizes the commandments (John 14:15) of the New Covenant, 1 John 3:23, ". . . And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. . . ." 1 John 5:12, ". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ."
3rdAngel
Member
Nope. What is the context of 1 JOHN 2:3-4 *1 JOHN 2:1 and what is sin *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11?
"mailmandan,
heb4:
9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
Yes it is;
heb4:
9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
According to the Sabbath laws given to Israel, all food eaten on the Sabbath was to be gathered & prepared beforehand. Remember, a man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
Thus, the disciples were breaking the Sabbath law by plucking the heads of grain. But did Jesus, Lord of the Sabbath, criticize them? No, He gave the Pharisees who criticized them some reminders of where God allowed David to break the law of showbread while reminding the Pharisees He was also Lord of the Sabbath.
While Jesus Himself kept all the law to the letter, He didn't expect nor demand that anyone else do so.
The whole Sabbath thingie was invented by Mrs. White as part of her establishing a new cult, just as its offshoot, the Jabroney False Witlesses, who concentrate on "no blood". Each cult needs something to make it unique, & the Sabbath thingie is the Seven-Day-Adlibbers' trademark.
3rdAngel
Member
Indeed. Under the CIVIL laws of ISRAEL under the OLD COVENANT anyone who was caught OPENLY breaking nearly ANY ONE of God's 10 commandments were put to death. *DEUTERONOMY 13:6-18; 1 SAMUEL 26:19; DEUTERONOMY 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; DEUTERONOMY 7:25-26; LEVITICUS 24:10-17; EXODUS 31:14-15; 35:2; LEVITICUS 20:9; DEUTERONOMY 21:18-21; EXODUS 21:17; EXODUS 21:12-14; LEVITICUS 20; JOHN 8:5; EXODUS 21:16; DEUTERONOMY 19:15-21. That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23 although JESUS says vengence is mine at his 2nd coming *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12 as now we are under the NEW COVENANT not the OLD civil laws of ISRAEL.
Your confusion is showing. JESUS was teaching them that it is lawful to do good on the SABBATH and that the disciples were not breaking the Sabbath and he (JESUS) is the Lord of it *MATTHEW 12:1-12.
These are your words then we have the very words of JESUS that disagree with your words here...
MATTHEW 5:17-22 [17], THIINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS I HAVE NOT COME TO DESTROY BUT TO FULFIL. [18], For truly I say to you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS ONE JOT OR TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. [19], WHOSEVER SHALL BREAK ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS AND SHALL TEACH MEN SO, SHALL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
and again...
MATTHEW 5:20
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART.
BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.
If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12.
Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.
Can we have GRACE without God's LAW if the purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25?
You are indeed confused and are in error if you think that JESUS came to fulfill the law so that we are now free to break it and are the very person we are warned against in MATTHEW 5:19 and 1 JOHN 2:3-4; MATTHEW 7:15; MATTHEW 10:16; LUKE 10:3 and ACTS 20:29.
Now you have only been provided God's WORD and God's WORD denies yours and if I have only told you the truth than why do you not believe it?
God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear and do not follow.
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mailmandan
Active Member
Actually, NONE of these verses that you cited above command the Church to keep the sabbath day under the new covenant. You quoted them because the word "Sabbath" was mentioned then twisted those verses to support your agenda, but where is the COMMAND for the Church under the new covenant? Show me the specific COMMAND for the Church to keep the Sabbath day holy under the new covenant. *It's not there. *Colossians 2:16-17 still stands.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Your twisting of scripture demonstrates your false claims and error in relation to Colossians 2:16-17. I already shared the truth with you here...
COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?
Under the old covenant 10. Under the new covenant the moral aspect of 9 of the ten commandments are reiterated.
So you really believe that your righteousness is found in keeping the 10 commandments? Do you define "keep" as perfectly obey? Do you really believe that you will be saved based on the merits of keeping the 10 commandments? Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. You really need to come down off your self righteous high horse. It's time for you to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.
So who has PERFECTLY obeyed (and has not once broken) the 10 commandments, besides Jesus? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) INCLUDING YOU. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life (through obeying the 10 commandments?) NO... through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The huge difference between you and I is that you are trusting in obeying the 10 commandments as the means of receiving salvation. (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:27-28; Galatians 3:10-11) I am trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9)