Yes, a friend offered this verse;
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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Does man have a spirit?
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
I made that post a long time ago emphasizing the contrast Paul made on 1 Cor. 15 (contrasting "the flesh" and "the spirit") . Adam was made flesh (which is a body and spirit and/ or soul). Christ became a "life giving Spirit" ).
I am not sure why we would seriously approve of lifting a post from an over a year old thread and inserting it here. But since I am the person targeted I can assure you that it is severely out of context here. While I do not appreciate having my words twisted to try and "trap" me into holding a view I reject, all I can do is say @Iconoclast did indeed misunderstand.
I believe Adam was created "flesh". Not just biologically but in a biblical context. A body and spirit (I believe body, spirit, and soul). When Scripture speaks of people being "flesh" or "of the flesh" it is not implying the absence of a spirit or soul.
I hope this clarifies the misunderstanding of the OP. Assumption are often false. I'm just glad I noticed this one so I could provide clarity.
Since the soul is part of the spirit, that would not be possible. Again, if the spirit departs the flesh dies. If the soul is not part of the spirit, it has no place to exist.
Of course you are free to believe what you will, but your view is inconsistent (in my opinion) with many scriptures. Explain what the "soul" is absent the spirit? The flesh is dead so no function there.
The spirit is always there. When I say God gives us a new spirit I don't mean there is a time we are absent a spirit. We always have a soul and a spirit but God changes our spirit (my understanding).
The idea about man not having a spirit was @Iconoclast 's misunderstanding of a post on a thread a little over a year ago. That's the issue with misunderstandings. If they are not caught they grow into disputes.
As far as I know no one has claimed that there is a time man does not have a spirit.
I believe man has a body, a soul, and a spirit. The body will die. Christians will be given a new spirit. The soul (IMHO), remains. The soul, IMHO, is who we are (we are given new spirits or natures but we are still the same people who are crucified with Christ).
On the thread a year ago...you did not clarify anything even though you were asked several times.
Thanks for clarifying your idea.
Now I will defend your right to post any idea you want but I also defend the right of people to take issue with your understanding which to my read has many problems.
Thanks for clarifying your idea.
Now I will defend your right to post any idea you want but I also defend the right of people to take issue with your understanding which to my read has many problems.
I know some people take issue with my belief that Adam did not experience the indwelling of the Spirit. But many people agree.
My belief is this occurred after the Cross (when Christ "became a life giving Spirit). You may disagree, and that is fair. But yours is the only orthodox view.
What I suggest, @Iconoclast, is that you may want to ask more questions and listen to the responses others may make than form conclusions and make assertions of other people's beliefs.
In this case you could have just asked me if I meant Adam did not have a spirit. I would have explained that I believe Adam was created with a human body, a human spirit, and a human soul. We could have discussed our differences from there.
I am sure you did not intend to misrepresent my words, but it could have easily been avoided.
"JonC,
The thing is... I did not offer my view.
I did not say my view is the only view.
I did say everyone that is confessional believes spiritual death occurred on that day as the text indicates. Biblicist went into great detail on this and it was never refuted.
Your posts speak for themselves. They stand or fall when cross examined. Biblicist went through them like a hot knife through butter,just sayin .
No...just revealing what is there in black and white. You cannot get clearer than that.
That was not what the issue was.
The thing is... I did not offer my view.
I did not say my view is the only view.
I did say everyone that is confessional believes spiritual death occurred on that day as the text indicates. Biblicist went into great detail on this and it was never refuted.
Your posts speak for themselves. They stand or fall when cross examined. Biblicist went through them like a hot knife through butter,just sayin .
No...just revealing what is there in black and white. You cannot get clearer than that.
The Biblicist's stand was that the state of death means one was previously alive. It was a very weak assumption. He was wrong (when James spoke of dead faith he was not implying this people once had alive faith).
Again, I stand by my words. But at the same time I know you did not grasp what I was posting. I was referring to "flesh" and "spirit" on biblical terms (not a "lump of flesh" without a spirit).
Ignorance is not a crime, especially when examining other people's view. I did not realize you failed to understand what I had posted or I would have clarified (I thought we were all familiar with 1 Corinthians and terms like "spirit" and "flesh").
Just slow down, don't get emotional about doctrine, and clarify instead of jumping to the wrong conclusions. Many of these false assumptions could have been prevented by simply seeking clarification before jumping to conclusions.
For those reading...here is the previous thread ...read and evaluate carefully; you make up your mind so we can move forward.
Spiritual Death
Spiritual Death
No. That is dishonest.
First, only a fool would argue someone holds a view they flatly reject.
It is dishonest because I have told you what I believe. You, and anyone else, does not have a right to decide otherwise.
You can argue that I expressed myself poorly. You can argue against my view (here it is that Adam was created flesh... With a body, soul, and spirit centered on the flesh and not the Spirit).
But when you project onto me a belief I do not hold you make yourself a liar. Someone once said this is the same intent as murder and requires repentance. I don't know about all of that. But I do know it is wrong and dishonest.
That is what I have been telling you for years. You read something and draw conclusions that are not always correct. But you cannot accept you misunderstood even when the other person explains their words and their beliefs.
JonC,
You posted in it.
I posted in it.
Biblicist posted in it.
Anyone can read it as it is archived. What is not honest about this?
The thread will reveal what you posted.
No one is trying to trick anyone. As feedback comes in, by all means, clarify what was not clear.
This is already clearer than the other version.
I did no such thing, I quoted you directly before you removed my posts,
Now if I recall correctly one main issue was, and still is..
DID ADAM DIE SPIRITUALLY THAT DAY?
Did he have a human spirit?
If he did what was the condition of that human spirit pre fall?
What if anything happened to that spirit post fall?
You have posted about your ideas about eternal life and being sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit for those In Christ.
That however is not the issue here.
There is nothing dishonest about having people look at the previous thread that was not really resolved.
You posted in it.
I posted in it.
Biblicist posted in it.
Anyone can read it as it is archived. What is not honest about this?
The thread will reveal what you posted.
No one is trying to trick anyone. As feedback comes in, by all means, clarify what was not clear.
This is already clearer than the other version.
I did no such thing, I quoted you directly before you removed my posts,
Now if I recall correctly one main issue was, and still is..
DID ADAM DIE SPIRITUALLY THAT DAY?
Did he have a human spirit?
If he did what was the condition of that human spirit pre fall?
What if anything happened to that spirit post fall?
You have posted about your ideas about eternal life and being sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit for those In Christ.
That however is not the issue here.
Before deciding what you want someone to believe you need to ask them to clarify what they believe. This will help prevent confusion and false assumptions.
God gave you two eyes, two ears, and one mouth.
How many times did I say that God created Adam flesh - a human body, a human spirit and a human soul?????
But you just keep on.
Warning - if this thread cannot coninue in an honest manner (without falsely attributing to members beliefs they have rejected) this thread will be closed.
This childishness stops now.
The topic of the thread is whether or not man has a spirit. Thus far everyone believes so, but some hold to a tripartite view while others a bipartite view.
This childishness stops now.
The topic of the thread is whether or not man has a spirit. Thus far everyone believes so, but some hold to a tripartite view while others a bipartite view.
What are you talking about?
I said people could read what you posted for themselves, then I asked you some questions that are not clear.
yes today you said body ,spirit,soul.
Now could you answer the original questions?
Now if I recall correctly one main issue was, and still is..
DID ADAM DIE SPIRITUALLY THAT DAY?
Did he have a human spirit?
If he did what was the condition of that human spirit pre fall?
What if anything happened to that spirit post fall?
You have posted about your ideas about eternal life and being sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit for those In Christ.
That however is not the issue here.
Yes. The original question is
I have always affirmed man as having a spirit. In the Bible "flesh" includes a human spirit. I believe man is body, soul, and spirit.
I am not familiar with those you speak of who believe man does not have a spirit. I cannot contribute to that.
Any more is off topic (and has recently been discussed on an appropriate thread).
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Okay...now
1]What was the condition of Adam's spirit pre fall? Was his spirit alive to God?
2] If his spirit was not alive to God what was its purpose or function?
3] In the day you eat, dying you shall surely die.
Adam ate....what if anything died that day?
in the day you eat....
4] If you suggest only a physical death. how did Adam live for hundreds of years after?
5] If the death was physical what if any effect or change was on the spirit? the soul?
6] When did spiritual death occur?
7] are men spiritually dead?
8] in speaking of spiritual death, we are not speaking of the eternal state, we are asking about man in the here and now,
These are good starters for this discussion,
It is a good starter. I have already discussed my views (I finished yesterday on a thread which is still open). I encourage those who have not to consider your questions.
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