Featured Martin Luther and William Tyndale on the State of the Dead.

In 1516 Pietro Pomponatius, of Mantua, noted Italian professor and leader among the Averrorists, issued a book 'Treatise on the Immortality of the Soul' which was against the position the Roman Catholic Church proclaimed. This was widely read, and as a result, he was hauled before the Inquisition, and his book publicly burned in Venice.

The next year, Luther posted his famous Theses on the church door in Wittenberg. In his 1520 published Defence of 41 of his propositions, Luther cited the pope's immortality declaration, as among "those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals" (proposition 27). In the twenty-seventh proposition of his Defence Luther said:

'However, I permit the Pope to establish articles of faith for himself and for his own faithful—such are: That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals—in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish.'—Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum.

Here is what was said of Luthers view, 'Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then he made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment of his life..—Archdeacon Francis Blackburne, Short Historical View of the Controversy Concerning an Intermediate State,1765age 14.

 

Here is Tyndale, English Bible translator and martyr...

..In his Master of Arts thesis (1946), "A Study of Martin Luther's Teaching Concerning the State of the Dead," T. N. Ketola, tabulating Luther's references to death as a sleep—as found in Luther's Sammtliche Schriften, Walsh's Concordia, 1904 ed.—lists 125 specific Luther references to death as a sleep. Ketola cites another smaller group of references showing Luther believed in the periodic consciousness of some. But the main point is that, while the dead live, they are unconscious—which is stated some seven times.

teaching of conditional immortality. This, as well as other teachings, brought him into direct conflict with the papal champion, Sir Thomas More, likewise of England. In 1529 More had strongly objected to the "pestilential sect" represented by Tyndale and Luther, because they held that "all souls lie and sleep till doomsday." In 1530 Tyndale responded vigorously, declaring:

And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181.

Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innate immortality.
Thus:

The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.—lbid., p. 180.

In yet another section of the same treatise, dealing with the "invocation of saints," Tyndale uses the same reasoning, pointing out that the doctrine of departed saints being in heaven had not yet been introduced in Christ's day:

And when he [More] proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, "If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead;" there he stealeth away Christ's argument, wherewith he proveth the resurrection: that Abraham and all saints should rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect.—Ibid., p. 118.

Tyndale presses his contention still further by showing the conflict of papal teaching with St. Paul, as he says in slightly sarcastic vein:

"Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again." And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist [known] it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection)—Ibid.

 

Here is a good explanation on Martin Luther...
"MARTIN LUTHER (1483-1546), learned in the classics, eminent in Scripture, and intrepid in action, was the master spirit of the Reformation in Germany. Although he broke with the Papacy by nailing his Ninety-five Theses against indulgences on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, it was his appearance before the Diet of Worms, to defend his position from Scripture before the emperor, that made him a national hero. His translation of the Bible into the German tongue ranks him among the masters and molders of the German language. And his doctrine of justification by faith became the battle cry of the Reformation.

Luther overshadowed all other leaders of the Reformation in sheer courage and audacity, boldly taking his battle for spiritual freedom directly to the highest ecclesiastical and civil authorities, and shaking off the pontifical yoke. He was one of the great preachers of his time and one of the most powerful personalities of the Christian Era. He dared to defy the Papacy, with all of its imposing power, pageantry, and perversions, as well as anathemas, by striking at its unscriptural traditions. And he was the first sixteenth-century Reformer to question and reject the papal dogma of the immortality of the soul, particularly the postulate of consciousness in death amid the pains of Purgatory."...Martin Luther's Views on Conditionalism and Soul Sleep

 

Lets look at what Jesus said:
John 5:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

We see here that Jesus said nothing about the soul and so its clear we can be a Christian and not believe in the immortality of the soul, but it is not possible to be a Christian and not believe in the resurrection of the body.

 

Lets look in the Bible and see what happens when you die.

In Jer 31:26 After this I awoke and looked around, and my sleep was sweet to me. Also in Daniel 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
The word used here is shenah corresponding to 8142, now compare:

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The word for sleep here is not the same as one sleeping in everyday use. yashen ( from 3462; sleepy: KJV-- asleep, (one out of) sleep slept.

What does sleep mean in this context? The Bible uses this term when speaking of death. The primary verses we find showing the dead have no thoughts or consciousness are:
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, "For the living know they shall die: but the dead know not any thing," and Ecclesiastes 12:7, "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." Also Psalm 146:4, "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish". Or Psalm 115:17, "The dead do not praise the Lord, nor any who go down into silence" or Psalm 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of Thee; in the grave who shall give Thee thanks? And of course, there is Ezek. 18:4, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But in the Old Testament we also find:

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?"

1 Samuel 3:3 Samuel was laid down to SLEEP;

1 Samuel 28:3 Now SAMUEL was DEAD, and all Israel had lamented him, and BURIED HIM in RAMAH,

Psalm 104:29
Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

and also what is happening when we are dead:

Deuteronomy 31:16 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12 - And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

1 Kings 1:21 - Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Job 7:21 - And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Psalms 13:3 - Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;


Psalms 30:9 "What will you gain from my death? What profit from my going to the grave? Are dead people able to praise you? Can they proclaim your unfailing goodness?

Psalms 76:6 - At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, both the chariot and horse are cast into a dead sleep.

Isaiah 57:2 Those who live good lives find peace and rest in death.

Jeremiah 51:39 - In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 51:57 - And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

In the New Testament we see
Matthew 9:24 - He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Mark 5:39 - And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Luke 8:52 - And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.


John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Act 2:31-32 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 7:59 -60 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 13:36 - For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Ephesians 5:14 - Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 - For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2 Peter 3:4 - And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

And when we will come out of the grave.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

And what Christ himself tells us will happen to those who have died, the resurrection of the just, and the resurrection of damnation for the wicked.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

These text clearly show the soul does not continue on after death or the dead float in spirit bodies and dwell Gods presence. The focus in this belief for Seventh-day Adventists is on resurrection at the Second Coming to eternal life for the believer and to destruction for the unbeliever. Whatever immortality the believer may enjoy in the future is the result of the redemption provided in Jesus (Romans 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:53,54; 2 Timothy 1:10). The resurrection of the wicked dead will result in the righteous saints judging them and God consigning them to destruction. Support for this if found in Jesus warning His hearers to fear "the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell"; (Matthew 10:28).

The soul, is not immortal so hell means the destruction of the wicked, annihilation at the Lake of Fire.

 

You have to bear in mind certain things when reading any prophetic book , it is the highly figurative language being used. For instance, John also saw strange beasts coming out of the sea, a woman riding a ferocious beast, another woman clothed with the sun, etc. There is all kinds of imagery used in Revelation that is symbolic of a greater truth; the souls under the alter is no exception and hardly constitutes a reliable reference in which one should base a doctrine on. The verse in Rev 18 should be questioned on this premise as well. If this verse is to be taken literally then what reason or purpose is there in stuffing martyred souls under an altar? Is this to be taken literally? Lets look at Genesis 4:10
Genesis 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

I think we can agree that the blood itself did not literally cry to God from the ground. It is plain to see it was figurative, and if you think about it, you don't believe that all the souls of those slain for the word of God are under some altar in heaven, crying out to God for vengeance upon their slayers.

 

God has told us how much the dead actually know:

Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 King James Version (KJV)
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The "dead know not any thing", the saints in the grave have to wait for the resurrection at the second coming, where they will rise and will be changed in a moment:

Job 14:14-22 King James Version (KJV)
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
16 For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
18 And surely the mountains falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place.
19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.
20 Thou prevailest for ever against him, and he passeth: thou changest his countenance, and sendest him away.
21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

At the latter day our Redeemer will stand on the earth, and in our new flesh we will see Him:

Job 19:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

This shows the that the soul and body are unconscious in the grave, not floating around on a cloud or suffering in purgatory.

 

Here is more I came across on Martin Luther..
However, the best known advocate of soul sleep was Martin Luther (1483–1546). [Froom 1966, p. 74: “Archdeacon Blackburne's incisive summation of Luther's position was this: ‘Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then he made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and Saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment of his life.]

In writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says:

Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute. [Martin Luther, "An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher" (translation 1573)]

Elsewhere Luther states: As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel.[Luther, Martin, "WA", 37.191.]

 

I don't think anyone truly believes that, leave heaven and Christ and all its glory and come back to our bodies and Christ see us and say, rise and come to heaven with Me.