Featured Martin Luther and William Tyndale on the State of the Dead.

Henry Grew [Baptist, 1850's] & William Glen Moncrieff [Scottish Presbyterian]

"... "... 4. The Bible teaches that MAN, THE SOUL, as well as the body dies. ..." [page 9]

[page 32] IX. Should the reader see cause, from the Bible, to admit that the dead "sleep," or are unconscious till the resurrection, he will discover very clearly that "Purgatory" and the intercession of saints in heaven [Communion of the Saints, so-called], &c., maintained by the Romanists, are fabrications and delusions. If the dead are conscious after death, it is difficult to see how a very satisfactory demonstration that these are errors and absurdities can be furnished. ..." - The Intermediate State by Henry Grew (Baptist), Philadelphia, U.S., Edited, with Notes, by William Glen Moncrieff, Minister of the Gospel, Musselburgh. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is out life shall appear, THEN [Caps Original] shall ye also appear with him in glory.' - Col. III. 3. 4. Reprinted from the American Third Edition, London: Ward & Co., 27, Paternoster Row; James Kerr, 32, Nicolson Street, Edinburgh; Glasgow: James Smith, 32, Nelson Street. 1851 (Price Sixpence) Appendix, section IX., Pages 9,32 - The Intermediate State ... Edited, with Notes, by W. G. Moncrieff
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The entire work, speaks of the sleep of the departed (righteous or wicked) in the grave until their respective resurrection.

 

Henry Grew (Baptist) on state of the dead and annihilation

"... For the Millennial Harbinger.

Dear Brother Campbell. -- Far be it from me to commend to you, or to any person, any doctrine because it is "consonant to some men's theories of what is fitting for God and men." I hope, by the divine favor, I can sincerely say with you, "I go for what is evidently the meaning of scripture, or whatever is true; not for what is most plausible or palatable."

It is not my design, in this article, to attempt a full discussion or vindication of the doctrine of future punishment, as consisting in the torments of the lake of fire, terminating in the entire destruction of body and soul; a doctrine which I firmly believe to be clearly revealed in the oracles of God. I beg leave simply to reply to the arguments you have offered to our consideration in opposition to this doctrine. You observe, "With me punishment is pain," &c. "Now if punishment mean pain or torment, it can-[left to right column] not also mean unconsciousness," &c. The question to be considered is, whether all punishment consists in pain and nothing else? This I deny, for punishment may consist in deprivation or loss of good. If it is said that this deprivation or loss is attended with the pain of consciousness thereof, I reply, it may or may not be. -- The fact of the loss is independent of such consciousness. A father promises his child, on condition of good behavior, that he shall go in the evening to a place of rational amusement where he will be highly delighted. He threatens him at the same time that he shall not go, but be sent to bed, if he behaves ill. The child exposes himself to the threatening, which is executed. He suffers the pain of consciousness of the loss of the happiness he might have enjoyed until he falls into a state of unconsciousness in sleep. Now I affirm that this mental pain is not all his punishment. It is not all that was threatened. There is an actual deprivation or loss of happiness which he would have enjoyed had he been obedient. This was a special part of the threatening. This punishment of loss is independent of the mental pain it occasioned. This is manifest by contrasting his state of unconsciousness in sleep with the felicity he might have enjoyed with this companions.

"No feeling, no pain, is a sure maxim," but this does not prove that no pain, no punishment, is so. To withhold good on account of ill-doing is properly of the nature of punishment. Man's chief end is to serve and enjoy his adorable Maker forever. The loss of all the glory of immortality in the beatific presence of God, in consequence of sin, is a loss of inconceivable magnitude. It is the greatest possible punishment of loss which can be threatened by the righteous Judge; a punishment of tremendous import. What saith the scriptures of truth? "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power," 2. Thes. I. 9. Now I submit two questions to your candid determination. First. Is not the loss of the glory of the divine presence and power the main idea of this passage? Second. Is not this loss declared to be punishment? If the meaning of the word "destruction" in this passage is doubtful, is it not clearly determined by out blessed Lord, Matt. X. 28, to be, not a destruction of happiness only, but a destruction of body and soul? 2. Thes. I. 9, clearly teaches that the punishment of the wicked will be "destruction from the presence of [page 338-339 starting again left column] the Lord." Now if the punishment is destruction, and destruction everlasting, does it not clearly follow that this is "everlasting punishment?"

But suppose the term punishment always to mean pain and nothing else, does it necessarily follow that the term :everlasting" applied to punishment in Matt. XXV. 46, means strictly endless, because the term is used in that sense in the same verse in application to the life of the righteous? Are the mountains, which are to be "burned up," 2. Peter III. 10, as everlasting as the ways of the immutable Jehovah, because this term is applied to both in the same verse, Hab. III. 6? I believe that the term is used in an unlimited sense in Matt. XXV. 46, understanding it in the sense which 2. The. I. 9, and Matt. X. 23 teaches, viz: "everlasting destruction." When we say that future punishment is only everlasting destruction and say that it is also continued antecedent to torment, your charge of our system being "suicidal" shall be admitted. At present it is believed that the charge is more justly applicable to the system that admits the scripture doctrine of the everlasting destruction of body and soul in hell, and also the everlasting existence of body and soul in hell.

I see no force in the objection of Mr. Edwards, that our view, "makes eternal (future he should have said) punishment to be a compound of previous torment and eternal annihilation." This neither implies any thing about "the doom of infants" nor that :the least culpable sinners," will be destroyed without any previous torment, nor that annihilation is "the least punishment imaginable." The destruction of the body and soul in hell, as a punishment, is to be contrasted, not with the torment which precedes it, but with the eternal enjoyment of the presence and glory of God from which it forever excludes the last sinner. So the scriptures teach, 2. Thes. I. 9. Mr. Edwards, therefore, is incorrect in saying that "to be annihilated, after a long series of torments, would be no punishment at all."* [*notation at bottom says, A few lines are here omitted.] If the alternative is eternal misery or entire destruction of body and soul, the sinner chooses the latter, not because it is a punishment, or a thing in itself not to be dreaded, but because it is the least of two evils. You will please to observe that "the great Dr." disagrees with you opinion that annihilation is no punishment, by admitting that it is "the least." [To be continued.] ...”

 

Henry Grew (Baptist) on state of the dead and annihilation

“... For the Christian Palladium. Future Punishment. By Elder Henry Grew. [Concluded from our last.]

You justly remark, that, "To destroy the meaning of words is to destroy the Bible." The question is, who does this? is it the man who says that when Jesus Christ speaks of body and soul being destroyed in hell, Matthew X. 28, he means just as he says, that body and soul will be destroyed, or is it the man who says that he means that the happiness of the body and soul shall be destroyed? Who is it, brother, that adds to the words of the faithful witness in this case? Does he destroy the meaning of words who affixes to the words "die," "death," "second death," as the wages of sin, and penalty of the holy law of God, the meaning which is the direct opposite of life: or does he do this who affixes to these terms the meaning of life in a particular condition? Penalties to laws are not expressed in figurative language. The consequences of them may be illustrated by such language, but they are first expressed by plain literal terms. -- "The wages of sin is death." "The soul that sinneth it shall die." Here is the penalty of the law, plainly and literally given. This fearful doom is indeed illustrated by figurative language. The wicked are compared to "tares," and to "chaff," which are burned entirely up, if the fire, to which they are consigned, is not quenched. To say that the wages of sin is spiritual death, which is to be "dead in trespasses and sins," is to confound the penalty with the crime. It is to say, that the wages of sin is sin.

My brother's second argument is, "that Jesus assigns to wicked men the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Now angels cannot die; for Jesus affirms they cannot." But of what angels does [left to right column] Jesus affirm this? Did he promise his true disciples that they should be equal to the devil and his angels, or did he refer to the elect and holy angels? And why cannot these die? Not because they are necessarily immortal, which God only is, 1. Tim. VI. 16, but because of their election by the Almighty to eternal life and holiness, 1. Tim. V. 21. Surely, this is no proof that the angels who kept not their first estate err in their expectations, both of torment and destruction, (see Mark I. 24,) or that Jesus Christ will fail to destroy the devil according to the revealed purpose of God, Heb. II. 14.

The "third argument," that "if eternal punishment be eternal death, in the sense of eternal unconsciousness, then those who are doomed to this state are punished no more than the harmless dove," &c., is as harmless to my views as the harmless dove itself. You say, "they (the dove and the lamb) go into the eternal fire, with the devil and his angels, if that everlasting punishment and eternal fire be an eternal sleep," &c. The absurdity of believing or representing that eternal fire is eternal sleep, belongs not to me, nor, to my knowledge to anyone else. You confound the "unquenchable," and, consequently, consuming or devouring fire, with its ultimate effect, eternal death. Tribulation and anguish, at present inconceivable, will precede the final destruction of body and soul in hell. To compare the destruction of intelligent man, made in the image of God, and his banishment from the glorious presence of his Creator, which he was capacitated eternally to enjoy, had he been obedient, with the destruction of irrational creatures, who never possessed any such capacity, is entirely inadmissable.

Mr. Edwards has fallen into the same error in his fourth objection, of confounding the antecedent torment with final unconsciousness which entire destruction produces. Whether the threatening of the Almighty to debar sinners forever from the enjoyment [page 353-354, starting again left column] of his glorious presence, by destroying them utterly, "is to threaten them with putting an end to their miseries," or their joys, common sense may judge. That the loss of a glorious Immortality, by a destruction of being, implies a termination of conscious misery, is true but this is no part of the threatening. The threatening of a certain term of imprisonment for crime, implies a release (at the expiration of the term) from some evils to which the man was previously exposed. Shall we, therefore, say that the Judge threatens him with a release from prison? Mr. Edwards's argument founded on "different degrees of punishment" is obviously inapplicable to such as admit of different degrees of punishment before destruction.

You observe, "life is not simply being; nor eternal life, eternal being, but eternal well being; neither is eternal death the loss of being, or of consciousness, but the loss of eternal well being." How is this proved by the fact, that there is "something to be blessed," or tormented, independent of happiness and torment, I do not perceive. -- That the terms "life," and "eternal life," used in the scriptures, as a promise, gift, or reward, and applied to the righteous, import "well being," is very true; but this is not the meaning of the terms, abstractly considered. Life, in respect to man, is an animated state of being. it may be happy or miserable. The rich man is alive in hell. If the simple term "life" imports happiness, why do you speak of a wretched life? The term "eternal" is not a term of quality, but of duration. As the scriptures reveal no endless existence, but for those whose names are in the book of life, and represent eternal life as a gift, reward, and blessing, the qualifying adjective is unnecessary. The assertion, "neither is eternal death the loss of being, or of consciousness," is sustained by no proof. To say that it is not so, because "there will be something to be ----- tormented forever and ever," in the unlimited sense of that phrase, is taking for granted the very point to be proved. -- Now I will prove that the terms "death," and "second death," do mean "unconsciousness," and eternal death, eternal unconsciousness; first, from the obvious meaning of the terms, and secondly, from the positive testimony of Jesus Christ.

Death is the opposite of life, its direct contrast. Thus Webster defines it, a state "in which there is a total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions," &c. This theological definition indeed accords with your opinion, as well as that of baptism does with that of infant sprinklers. -- [left to right column] Whatever pain the body may endure, it is not dead until all sensibility and life are extinct. So whatever misery the soul may endure, it is not dead until its properties of knowledge, consciousness, &c., are extinct. The figurative use of the word death does not disprove this position. "Dead in trespasses and sins," is a figurative use of the term, denoting, not that the soul is not alive, but that it is not alive to holiness and God.

That the "second death" in the lake of fire, Rev. XX. 14, is to be understood literally, as terminating, after a state of torment, all conscious being, is evident from our Lord's words, Matt. X. 28. It is "to destroy the meaning of words," to say, that to destroy the happiness of the soul is to destroy the soul itself. "To destroy both soul and body in hell," and to destroy the happiness of the soul and body are two distinct propositions. To fill the soul and body with misery, and to destroy soul and body, are two distinct propositions. If "the second death" is figurative, how is it the second death? Will not the soul of the finally impenitent sinner have been always spiritually dead? How is it the second death of the body if it is not a literal cessation of all its vitality? If it is death because it is a state of pain, why is it not the twentieth or fortieth death?

One remark more remains to be considered. "The Apostles (you say) could have easily prevented all difficulty upon this subject by simply assuring us in definite language, "that all the wicked dead shall be raised and tormented a few thousand years and then annihilated as an eternal punishment, &c.* [At bottom, * Here Mr. C., after all he has written to the contrary, represents annihilation as a PUNISHMENT.] Now my dear brother, I beseech you, for the truth's sake, seriously and candidly t consider what language could more definitely express the doctrine of the "destructionist" than those of the true prophet, Matt. X. 28? If you say that to destroy soul and body means to destroy the felicity of soul and body, would you not have said that to annihilate soul and body means to annihilate the felicity of soul and body? If the words in Matt. X. 28, had not been recorded, would you not have said to the "destructionist," "the Apostles could have easily prevented all difficulty upon this subject by simply assuring us in definite language" that God's purpose, in respect to the finally impenitent is, "to destroy both soul and body in hell." If we believe not [page 354-355, starting again left column] the testimony of Jesus Christ, "neither would we be persuaded though one rose from the dead." Yours in Christian love. Henry Grew. ..." - The Christian Palladium, Volume 7 (Devoted to the improvement and happiness of mankind. Religion without Bigotry -- Zeal without Fanaticism -- Liberty without Licentiousness. Joseph Badger -- Editor, under the direction of the Christian General Book Association), April 1, 1839, No. 23, section MISCELLANY by Henry Grew (Baptist). - The Christian Palladium

 

Some actual tracts by Henry Grew can be read here - Tracts By Henry Grew Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings | Adventist Digital Library

 

Irenaeus, while having an incorrect view of the 'soul' (taught separation); was ultimately a conditionalist and annihilationist, notice for he speaks on souls of the righteous and wicked:

"... And therefore he who shall preserve the life bestowed upon him, and give thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever. But he who shall reject it, and prove himself ungrateful to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever. And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves ungrateful towards Him: If you have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly not receive from Him length of days for ever and ever. ..." - Against Heresies, Book II, Chapter 34 , Section 3. - CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, II.34 (St. Irenaeus)​

These also note the same in some detail - Deprived of continuance: Irenaeus the conditionalist | Rethinking Hell

"... Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, seem to have held the doctrine of the annihilation of the wicked. Justin Martyr, in his First Apology , c. viii., says indeed that the wicked will undergo “everlasting punishment;” but elsewhere, (in Dial. c. Tryph . c 5,) he plainly says, that “those who have appeared worthy of God die no more, but others are punished as long as God wills them to exist and be punished.” Irenaeus has the same language. “The Father of all,” he says, “imparts continuance for ever and ever to those who are saved; for life does not arise from us, nor from our own nature, but is bestowed according to the grace of God. He therefore who shall keep the life given to him, and render thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever. But he who shall reject it, and shew himself ungrateful to his Maker, deprives himself of continuance for ever and ever.” ( Contr. Hoeres . lib. ii. c. 34. para. 3.) We find the same doctrine also in the Clementine Homilies, ( Hom . iii. 6.) ..." - The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things by Andrew Jukes (Part 5)
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Justin Martyr, conditionalist, and even annihilationist -

"...Chapter 5. The soul is not in its own nature immortal ...

... Old Man: They [souls] are not, then, immortal?

Justin: No; since the world has appeared to us to be begotten. ...

... Old Man: ... wicked ... are punished so long as God wills them to exist and to be punished. ...

Justin:​

... For those things which exist after God, or shall at any time exist, these have the nature of decay, and are such as may be blotted out and cease to exist; for God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and therefore He is God, but all other things after Him are created and corruptible. For this reason souls both die and are punished: since, if they were unbegotten, ..." - Dialogue With Trypho, Chapter 5 - CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 1-9 (Justin Martyr)​

Yet, please notice that Justin is not arguing from a scriptural basis, but a philosophic, teleogistic and nature of the universe one.

Clementine Homilies (marked as 'spurious' by Rome), conditionalist and even annihilationist:

"... those who do not repent shall be destroyed by the punishment of fire ... But, as I said, at an appointed time a fifth part, being punished with eternal fire, shall be consumed. For they cannot endure for ever who have been impious against the one God. ..." - Clementine Homilies, Homily 3, Chapter 6 - CHURCH FATHERS: Clementine Homily 3​

 

John Milton (author of Paradise Lost):

"... that the spirit of man should be separate from the body, so as to have a perfect and intelligent existence independently of it, is nowhere said in Scripture, and the doctrine is evidently at variance both with nature and reason, as will be shown more fully hereafter. ..." - The State Of The Dead by John Milton, Author of "Paradise Lost", page 3 - https://repo.adventistdigitallibrar...16.259325897.1606537277-1381139506.1606537277

"... On the seventh day God ceased from his work, and ended the whole business of creation; Gen. II. 23.

It would seem, therefore, that the human soul is not created daily by the immediate act of God, but propagated from father to son in a natural order; which was considered the more probable opinion by Tertullian and Apollinarius, as well as by Augustine and the whole western church in the time of Jerome, as he himself testifies, Tom. II. Epist. 82, and Gregory of Nyssa in his treatise on the soul. God would in fact have left his creation imperfect, and a vast, not to say a servile task, would yet remain to be performed, without even allowing time for rest on each successive Sabbath, if he still continued to create as many souls daily as there are bodies multiplied throughout the whole world, at the bidding of what is not seldom the flagitous wantonness of man. Nor is there any reason to suppose that the influence of the divine blessing is less efficacious in imparting to man the power of producing after his kind, than to the other parts of animated nature; Gen. I. 22, 28. Thus it was from one of the ribs of man that God made the mother of all mankind, without the necessity of infusing the breath of life a second time, Gen. II. 22, and Adam himself begat a son in his own likeness after his image, Gen. V. 3. ..." - The State Of The Dead by John Milton, Author of "Paradise Lost", page 4 - https://repo.adventistdigitallibrar...16.259325897.1606537277-1381139506.1606537277

"... The death of the body is the loss or extinction of life. The common definition, which supposes it to consist in the separation of soul and body, is inadmissible. For what part of man is that dies when this separation takes place? Is it the soul? This will not be admitted by the supporters of the above definition. Is it then the body? But how can that be said to die, which never had any life of itself? Therefore the separation of soul and body cannot be called the death of man. ..." - The State Of The Dead by John Milton, Author of "Paradise Lost", page 11 - https://repo.adventistdigitallibrar...16.259325897.1606537277-1381139506.1606537277

"... Inasmuch then as the whole man is uniformly said to consist of body, spirit and soul, (whatever may be the distinct provinces severally assigned to these divisions,) I will show that, in death, first the whole man, and secondly, each component part suffers privation of life. It is to be observed, first of all, that God denounced the punishment of death against the whole man that sinned, without excepting any part. For what could be more just than that he who has sinned in his whole person, should die in his whole person? ..." - The State Of The Dead by John Milton, Author of "Paradise Lost", page 11 - https://repo.adventistdigitallibrar...16.259325897.1606537277-1381139506.1606537277

"... It is evident that the saints and believers of old, the patriarchs, prophets, and apostles, without exception held this doctrine. Jacob, Gen. XXXVII. 35, "I will go down into the grave unto my son, mourning." Gen. XLII. 36, "Joseph is not." So also Job, III. 12-18, "As an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." Compare Job, X. 21, Job, XIV. 10-13, "Man giveth up the ghost and where is he? .... "man lieth down and riseth not till the heavens be no more." Job, XVII. 13, 15, 16, "If I wait, the grave is mine house." "Where is now my hope?" .... "They shall go down to the bars of the pit." See also many other passages.

The belief of David was the same, as is evident from the reason so often given by him for deprecating the approach of death. Psal. VI. 5, "For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psal. LXXXVIII. 10-12, "Wilt thou show wonders to the dead?" Shall the dead arise and praise thee? Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? Psal. XV. 17, "The dead praise not Jehovah." Psa;. XXXIX. 13, "Before I go hence and be no more." Psal. CXLVI. 2, "While I live I will praise Jehovah." Certainly if he had believed t hat his soul would survive, and be received immediately into heaven, he would have abstained from all such remonstrances, as one who was shortly to take his flight where he might praise God unceasingly. It appears that the belief of Peter respecting David was the same as David's belief respecting himself. Acts II. 29, 34, "Let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both [page 12-13] dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day .... for David is not ascended into the heavens."

Again it is evident that Hezekiah fully believed that he should die entirely, where he laments that it is impossible to praise God in the grave. Isai. XXXVIII. 18, 19, "For the grave cannot praise thee: death cannot celebrate thee; they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth; the living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day." God himself bears testimony to the same truth. Isai. LVII. 12, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart; and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come; he shall enter into peace; they shall rest in their beds." Jer. XXX. 15, "Compared with Matt. II. 18, "Rachel weeping for her children, refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not." Thus also Daniel XII. 2, "Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

It is on the same principle that Christ himself proves God to be a God of the living, Luke XX. 37, arguing from their future resurrection; for if they were then living, it would not necessarily follow from his argument that there would be a resurrection of the body: hence he says, John XI. 25, "I am the resurrection and the life." Accordingly he declares expressly, that there is not even a place appointed for the abode of the saints in heaven, till the resurrection. John XIV. 2, 3, "I go to prepare a place for you: and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." There is no sufficient reason for interpreting this of the body; it is clear therefore that it was spoken, and should be understood, of the reception of the soul and spirit conjointly with the body into heaven, and that not till the coming of the Lord. So likewise Luke XX. 35; Acts CVII, 7, 60, "when he had said this he fell asleep." Acts XXIII. 6, "the hope and resurrection of the dead," that is, the hope of the resurrection, which was the only hope the apostle professed to entertain. ..." - The State Of The Dead by John Milton, Author of "Paradise Lost", pages 12-13 - https://repo.adventistdigitallibrar...16.259325897.1606537277-1381139506.1606537277​

 

Consider this history:

A History of the Doctrine of the Soul Among All Races and Peoples, Ancient and Modern, Including Theologians, Philosophers, Scientists, and Untutored Aboriginees; Carefully Brought Down to the Present Time, by Eld. D. M. Canright, second Edition, Revised. 1882.

A History of the Doctrine of the Soul Among All Races and Peoples, Ancient and Modern...; Carefully Brought Down to the Present Time | Adventist Digital Library

 

George Storrs (Methodist):

"... From the foregoing facts, several thoughts arise: --

First. There is no evidence in the Old Testament of any conscious existence between death and the resurrection. God made no revelation to the posterity of Jacob of any such doctrine.

Second. The doctrine of the intermediate conscious state of the dead is a pagan fable, derived from the Greeks and Romans.

Third. The Old Testament teaches that the dead are silent, inactive, and without knowledge. "In Sheol there is no knowledge." Ecc. 99:10.

...

The incorrigible sinner, like the filth about Jerusalem, and the dead bodies of malefactors, if not utterly consumed would keep alive the plague [meaning sin] in the universe; hence, they shall be "cast into Gehenna --hell-fire." Fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna"-hell. Mat. 10:28.

Lastly. The glorious thought is presented, that though the "gates of hades"--the grave--for a time close their iron folds, and seem to say, we shall hold fast the sleeping church yet our blessed Lord declares that power shall be broken-- that "the gates of the grave shall not prevail against it." A cheering thought truly. Some have slumbered long under the power of the grave, but Jesus will shortly descend from heaven with the voice of the archangel and the trump of Go--then burst ye gates of "hades"--the grave--you can hold your victims no longer--you iron folds and bars become like the flaxen cords on Sampson's arms that were as though burnt with fire. Triumphing, then, shall a redeemed Church stand up, made like her glorious head, to die no more. Blessed day--may it soon arrive. "Come Lord Jesus." ..." - An Inquiry: Are the Wicked Immortal? In Six Sermons. Also, have the Dead knowledge? by George Storrs, to Which is Prefixed An Extract On 'The Second Death' by Archbishop Whately, Twenty-First Edition; Philadelphia: Published By the Author, 1850, PDF page 58 (Left) - An inquiry are the wicked immortal? | Adventist Digital Library​

 

H. H. Dobney (Baptist; Conditionalist and Annihilationist, also see where he calls Jesus the "angel Jehovah", page 125 (PDF 132) & John Milton:

"... How was Adam to understand that death meant life, -- endless life-- endless life in torment?

On the contrary, the very words would seem to shut us up to the idea that utter destruction, cessation of existence, return to that nothingness out of which the divine power had called him, was the death threatened to out first father in case of transgression. An interpretation which is not only the most natural in itself, considering all the circumstances, but to which we are additionally impelled by the [page 128-129] exposition of the sentence which the author thereof himself gave, when after the transgression he appeared to judge the guilt-stricken pair. 'In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it was thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.' How utterly unlike the strain in which divines expound the original sentence! Not a word here about an intermediate state of misery for the disembodies spirit, and a resurrection to everlasting wretchedness. The return to dust is what the judge awards. Why then cannot theologians acquiesce when the mouth of the Lord hath spoken?

Is it not evident that Adam had as yet, at all events, no notion of two natures constituting him one person--no notion that the 'thou' whom God addressed could not return to dust, but must survive the dissolution of the body? Or, are we to suppose that Adam stood there begirt in metaphysical panopoly of proof, and saying within himself, -- "It is only this naturally perishable body which is doomed after all; the Lord hath passed no sentence on my immortal spirit, which will survive the decay of this animal frame, and which being unsentenced shall therefore be unscathed." For be it observed, the Judge sentences only to death, and a return to dust. And God himself, it is earnestly submitted, is his own best interpreter.

Seeing then that God said not a word about everlasting misery after death, and that there is nothing whatever to induce the supposition that Adam had reasoned out for himself the doctrine of his immortality, and so of the natural survivance of the spirit after the body's dissolution, it ought to follow that he would understand the threatened death to mean cessation of existence. ..." - The Scripture Doctrine of Future Punishment An Argument, by H H Dobney & John Milton, pages 128-129 (PDF 135-136) - The Scripture Doctrine of Future Punishment: An Argument : H H Dobney, John Milton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

 

Jeff B. Pool, citing historical Baptist theological positions on conditional immortality and annihilationism:

"... [Notation] 35 For example, on the basis of carefully developed biblical studies, the evangelical, John Stott offers a nicely measured statement. "I do not dogmatise about the position to which I have come. I hold it tentatively. But I do plead for frank dialogue among Evangelicals on the basis of Scripture. I also believe that the ultimate annihilation of the wicked should at least be accepted as a legitimate, biblically founded alternative to their eternal conscious torment" (John Stott, "John Stott's Response to Chapter 6," in Evangelical Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue, by David L. Edwards and John Stott [Downers Grove IL: Intervarsity Press, 1988] 320; similarly, see Edward Fudge, "The Final End of the Wicked," Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society 27 [September 1984]: 325-34). More accurately, many Christians understand their own view-points as "conditional immortality" and not under the often perjorative designation of "annihilationism: (e.g. John Wenham, The Goodness of God [Downers Grove IL: Intervarsity Press, 1974] 34-41). Contemporary Baptist theologians also develop similar viewpoints (Clark Pinnock, "Fire, Then Nothing," Christianity Today 31 [20 March 1987]: 40-41; idem. "The Destruction of the Finally Impenitent," Criswell Theological Review 4 [Spring 1990]: 243-59; idem, "The Conditional View," in Four Views on Hell, ed. William Crockett [Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1992] 135-78; Dale Moody, Apostasy: A Study in the Epistle to the Hebrews and in Baptist History [Greenville SC: Smyth & Helwys, 1991] 67-73; idem, Hop of Glory [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1964] 94-112).

Various concepts of conditional immortality or annihilationism have appeared earlier in Baptist history as well. Several examples illustrate this claim. General as well as particular Baptists developed versions of annihilationism or conditional immortality. Among particular Baptists, see the work of Samuel Richardson, Of the Torment of Hell, with the Foundations and Pillars Thereof Discovered, Shaken, and Removed (London: 1658) 135-36. Even [Page 133-134 Notation] one early General Baptist statement of beliefs may have been accommodated this viewpoint ("The Standard Confession of 1660," in Baptist Confession of Faith, ed. W. J. McGlothlin [Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society, 1911] 118-19 [article 22]). Also, see the work of William Whiston (1667-1752) and Richard Wright (1764-1836), both of whom also were General Baptists who shared this perspective (Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments [1740]; Wright, An Essay on Future Punishment [1846]). In 1878, some English Baptists formed the Conditionalist Association. George A. Brown, an English Baptist pastor, hosted this conference and later edited the journal of this association, entitled Bible Standard. Other Baptists ministers from this period held this viewpoint as well: Henry Hamlet Dobney, an English Baptist (Dobney, The Scripture Doctrine of Future Punishment [1846]); and Henry Grew, an English immigrant to the United States and pastor of First Baptist Church in Hartford, Connecticut (Grew, The Intermediate State [1835]; idem, Future Punishment, Not Eternal Life of Misery [1844]). I especially thank Rick Willis, recent graduate from SWBTS [South Western Baptist Theological Seminary], for much of this information from his dissertation (Willis, "'Torments of Hell': Conditional Immortality and the Doctrine of Final Punishment among Seventeenth-Century English Baptists" [Ph.D. diss., SWBTS, 1995]). ..." - Against Returning to Egypt: Exposing and Resisting Credalism in the Southern Baptist Convention by Jeff B. Pool, pages 133-134 [Notation sections] - Against Returning to Egypt​

 

Iconclasts (Icon Breakers) and Iconofiles (Icon Makers), and why the Iconclasts did what they did, sleep of the soul, while not perfectly represented is close to what scripture taught, in the Syriac and Byzantine Churches:

“... Under the entry of 765/66, Theophanes writes: “Everywhere he [Emperor Constantine V] rejected as being useless, both in writing and orally, the intercession of the holy Virgin, the Mother of God, and of all the saints, thanks to which all manner of help wells forth for us. He suppressed and obliterated their relics” (Theophanis Chronographia, ed. C. de Boor, Leipzig, 1883–1885, repr. Hildesheim, 1963, p. 439; trans. C. Mango, and R. Scott, The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor, Oxford, 1997, p. 607). For the rejection of saints’ intercession, cf. The Life of Stephen the Younger, 29: πάμπολλα δὲ αὐτῶν βλασφημησάντων καὶ κατὰ τῶν ἁγίων καὶ τῆς ἀχράντου Θεοτόκου αὐτῶν χωρησάντων, ὡς βοηθεῖν μετὰ θάνατον μὴ δυναμένης (La Vie d’Etienne le Jeune par Etienne le Diacre, ed. M.-F. Auzepy (Birmingham Byzantine and Ottoman Monographs, 3), Aldershot, 1997, p. 127.24–26); the rejection of the intercession of the Theotokos after her death is mentioned in the Adversus Constantinum Cabalinum, in PG 95, col. 337CD. ...” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, page 5 - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)

“...Two subsequent passages from the Definition of Hiereia give insight into the theology of sainthood of the Byzantine Iconoclasts:

For those saints who have well-pleased God and are honoured by Him with the dignity of sainthood, are eternally alive to God even if they have departed from here: the one who tries to set them up with dead and abominable art which has never been alive but was invented from the things which were the subjects of pagan vanity, shows himself as blasphemous. 11

And again those who are to reign with Christ, and to sit on the throne with him and to judge the Universe and to become of the same form with his glory – those, whom, as Scripture says, the world was not worthy, are they [the Iconophiles – V.B.] not ashamed to depict them by means of pagan art? It is not fit for Christians who have a hope in the Resurrection to make use of customs of demon-worshipping peoples and to insult saints who are going to shine in such glory by inglorious and dead matter. 12 ...”

“...[Notation] 11 ὁι γὰρ τῷ θεῷ εὐαρεστήσαντες ἅγιοι, καὶ παρ’ αὐτοῦ τιμηθέντες τῷ ἀξιώματι τῆς ἁγιότητος, ζῶσιν ἀεὶ θεῷ κἂν ἐνθένδε μετέστησαν, οὓς ὁ ἐν νεκρᾷ τέχνῃ καὶ στυγητῇ, μηδέποτε ζησάσῃ, ἀλλ’ ἐξ ἀντικειμένων Ἑλλήνων ματαίως ἐφευρεθείσῃ, λογιζόμενος ἀναστηλοῦν, βλάσφημος ἀποδείκνυται” (Mansi, vol. 13, col. 276D).

[Notation] 12 “...ἢ πάλιν τοὺς μέλλοντας συμβασιλεύειν τῷ Χριστῷ συγκαθέδρους τε γίνεσθαι, καὶ κρίνειν τὴν οἰκουμένην, καὶ συμμόρφους τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ ἔσεσθαι. ὧν, ὡς τὰ λόγιά φασιν, οὐκ ἦν ἄξιος ὁ κόσμος・ οὐκ ἐντρέπονται τῇ τοῦ Ἕλληνος ἀναγράψασθαι τέχνῃ; οὐ θεμιτὸν γὰρ τοῖς ἐλπίδα [page 8-9 Notation continues] ἀναστάσεως κεκτημένοις Χριστιανοῖς δαιμονολατρῶν ἐθνῶν ἔθεσι χρῆσθαι, καὶ τοὺς τοιαύτῃ μέλλοντας δόξῃ φαιδρύνεσθαι ἁγίους ἐν ἀδόξῳ καὶ νεκρᾷ ὕλῃ καθυβρίζειν” (Mansi, vol. 13, col. 277CD). ...” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, pages 8-9, with Notation - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)

“... Instead, alluding to the future general resurrection, the Iconoclasts seem to accuse the Iconophiles of some sort of magical practise, aimed at “resurrecting” the saints [page 9-10] on their icons and treating them as present here and now in a prayerful communication, which is reinforced by contrasting the (“correct”) views of the Iconoclasts patiently waiting for the resurrection to celebrate it with the glorified saints, and the Iconophiles, “insulting” the saints by prematurely representing them through dead (“unresurrected”) matter.14

We can propose a possible explanation in the old Antiochean doctrine on the “sleep of souls.”15 This “sleep” means that the soul of the deceased person, be he good or bad, is kept deprived of all sensation in utter inactivity from the moment of the death of its body until the Judgement, when, after the general resurrection, the souls will be joined to their bodies and everybody will receive the deserved reward or punishment. If this is the case, the meaning of both fragments becomes clear: according to Iconoclasts, the souls of the saints are in the state of sleep waiting for the general resurrection when they will reconnect with bodies and shine in great glory which they gain by their earthly feats. Until then they cannot be of any help for those who address them in prayers before the relics or icons – their prayers are not heard since hearing as a corporal sense is not available to the sleeping soul. By depicting the saints on the icons and appealing to them in prayers and supplications, the Iconophiles attempt in vain to “activate” the inactive souls of the departed (even, though, definitely righteous) people. ...

[notation] 15 There were at least two trends behind the idea of the post mortem inactivity of the soul: the sleep of the soul and the dissolution of the soul with its subsequent resurrection together with the body. The thnetopsychists are mentioned by Origen in his Dialogue with Heraclides (Entretien d’Origene avec Heraclide, ed. J. Scherer (SC, 67), Paris, 1960, p. 76.16–78.20); Eusebius of Caesarea, Historia Ecclesiastica, 6.37: “…others arose in Arabia, putting forward a doctrine foreign to the truth. They said that during the present time the human soul dies and perishes with the body, but that at the time of the resurrection they will be renewed together” (Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, series 2, vol. 1, Eusebius. Church History. Life of Constantine. Oration in Praise of Constantine, ed. P. Schaff and H. Wall, Grand Rapids, MI, 1965, p. 279; John of Damascus, Liber de Haeresibus, 90, Die Schriften des Johannes von Damaskos, ed. B. Kotter, vol. 4 (PTS, 22), Berlin – New York, 1981, p. 57; see also N. Constas, “An Apology for the Cult of Saints in Late Antiquity: Eustratius Presbyter of Constantinople, On the State of Souls after Death (CPG 7522)*,” JECS, 10.2 (2002), n. 14, p. 273, n. 27, p. 278 on the two groups mentioned in Eustratius the Presbyter.” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, pages 9-10, with Notation - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)​

 

Iconclasts (Icon Breakers) and Iconofiles (Icon Makers), and why the Iconclasts did what they did, sleep of the soul, while not perfectly represented is close to what scripture taught, in the Syriac and Byzantine Churches:

“...The background of this passage of Isaac must have been the doctrine of the sleep of souls which he exposes in his Century 3.75 from the second part, eloquently addressing his reader to not despair of death and a long stay in the tomb, which will be as light and wisp as a night’s sleep25. The traces of this doctrine are present already in Aphraat (d. ca. 345),26 Ephrem the Syrian (ca. [page 13-14]

“[Notation] 25 “Ne sois pas triste, parce que nous resterons pendant de longues anees dans cette corruption de la mort, sous la poussiere, jusqu’a ce que la fin du monde nous atteigne : cela ne pesera pas sur nous. La mort, de meme ce laps de temps pendant lequel nous dormirons dans un tombeau, passeront pour nous comme le songe d’une seule nuit. En effet, notre sage createur a aussi rendu legere notre mort, de sorte que nous n’en ressentirons aucunement la peine. Elle semble lourde aussi longtemps que nous ne l’avons pas encore accueillie, mais ensuite, nous ne ressentirons pas notre corruption ni la dissolution de notre constitution : tout cela ne pesera pas plus lourd que ne pese le songe d’une nuit au moment du reveil, comme si nous nous etions endormis la veille et sommes deja sur le point de nous lever. Aussi leger sera pour nous le long sommeil au tombeau, et aussi peu dureront les annees que nous y passerons.” (Isaac le Syrien, Oeuvres spirituelles. 41 Discours recemment decouverts, trans. Dom Andre Louf (Spiritualite Orientale, 81), Begrollesen-Mauges, 2003, pp. 227–228).

[Notation] 26 See the references in R. Beulay, L’enseignement spirituel de Jean de Dalyatha, mystique syrooriental du VIIIe siecle (Theologie historique, 83), Paris, 1990, pp. 492–494.”​

306–373),27 and Theodore of Mopsuestia (ca. 350–428).28 The doctrine can be found in such doctors of the Eastern Syrian Church as Narsai (d. 502),29 Babai the Great (ca. 550 – after 628), Dadisho Qatraya (second half of 7th c.), and many others.30 The most detailed elaboration of the doctrine, however, can be found in the Letters of the Nestorian Catholicos Timothy I (consecrated in 780). He says that only rationality and will belong to the soul proper out of its four faculties, most of which (i.e. irascibility or concupiscence) relate to the soul in its union to the body, and thus, after the departure of the soul from its body, it remains in a state which Timothy compares to a human foetus, limited in its movements and sensations. Thus, the departed souls are deprived of all sensation, associated with bodily functions, as well as of all efficient functions, which are, again, associated with the participation of bodies.31 This theory was canonised in the Council of 786–787, presided over by Timothy I.32

27 See references in Ibid., pp. 494–495; Dal Santo, Debating the Saints’ Cult, pp. 244–254.

28 Les homelies catechetiques de Theodore de Mopsueste, ed. R. Tonneau, R. Devreesse (Studi e Testi, 145), Vatican City, 1949, p. 177, Beulay, L’enseignement spirituel de Jean de Dalyatha, p. 495.

29 Beulay, L’enseignement spirituel de Jean de Dalyatha, pp. 498–499; Dal Santo, Debating the Saints’ Cult, pp. 254–273.

30 See Beulay, L’enseignement spirituel de Jean de Dalyatha, pp. 492–510 for the review of this doctrine among the Syrian authors. R. Beulay, however, does not mention Isaac the Syrian in relation to the doctrine.

31 For the primary references see Beulay, L’enseignement spirituel de Jean de Dalyatha, pp. 491–492; Dal Santo, Debating the Saints’ Cult, pp. 299–318.

32 In more detail on the Synod see O. Braun, “Zwei Synoden des Katholikos Timotheos I,” OC, 2 (1902), pp. 283–311. ...” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, pages 13-14, with Notation - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)

“...How might the Eastern Scripture-based doctrine35 end up and take roots in Byzantium? ...

... [Notation] 35 Cf. “sleep in the dust” of Dan 12:2, and Job. 21: 26, and sleep as a metaphor for death in Mt 9:24, Mt 27:52, Mk 5:39; Lk 8:52, Jn 11:11–14, Ac 7:60, Acts 13:36, 1 Th 4:13–15, 2 Pe 3:4; however, see F. Gavin, “The Sleep of Soul in the Early Syriac Church,” Journal of American Oriental Society 40 (1920), pp. 103–120 on the Aristotelian rethinking of the old Syrian paradigm since the seventh century. See also Dal Santo, Debating the Saints’ Cult, pp. 304–307 for the Aristotelian parallels to the anthropological doctrine of Timothy I. ...” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, page 15, with Notation - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)

“... Thus, the doctrine of the “sleep of souls,” originating in the Christian East, was accepted in some circles of Byzantium ...

... The doctrine of the sleep of souls might have been in the background of the rejection of saints’ icons in the circles close to the Byzantine Emperor Constantine V who ardently rejected saints’ intercession and efficacy of their relics. ...” - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople by Vladimir Baranov, page 18, with Notation - “Angels in the Guise of Saints”: A Syrian Tradition in Constantinople
 in: Scrinium Volume 12 Issue 1 (2016)​

 

I don't think there has been a thread with as much pasted worthlessness I didn't read.

 

Hard to read thru posts that deny the truth of scripture!

 

Modern Evangelicals, like Glenn A . Peoples:

"... Glenn People likewise write, "the New Testament is replete with the language of Jesus dying for sin, for sinners, and for us. Whatever else this might mean, it at least means that in Christ's passion and ultimately his death we see what comes of sin." 7. Peoples concludes, "in identifying with sinners and standing in their place, Jesus bore what they would have borne. Abandonment by God, yes. Suffering, yes. But crucially, death." 8. ... [notations 7 & 8] 7. Peoples, "Introduction to Evangelical Conditionalist," 21. 8. Ibid. ..." - McMaster Journal of Theological and Ministry, ISSN 1481-0794, Editor David J. Fuller, McMaster Divinity College, 1280 Main Street West, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1, email: mjtm@mcmaster.com Volume 18, 2016-2017, by Christopher M Date, Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, CA - page 70 - McMaster Journal of Theology and Ministry: Volume 18, 2016–2017

https://www.mcmaster.ca/mjtm/documents/Volume18/18.MJTM.69-92-Date.pdf

Glenn A. Peoples is cited from "Introduction to Evangelical Conditionalist," page 21- https://www.lutterworth.com/pub/rethinking hell ch2.pdf

"... R. F. Weymouth speak for us: My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying “destroy,” or “destruction,” are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this.36 ... [notation] 36 Quoted from a letter to Edward White, in Constable, Future Punishment, 55. ..." - Introduction to Evangelical Conditionalist, by Glenn A. Peoples, page 23 - https://www.lutterworth.com/pub/rethinking hell ch2.pdf

"... Together, these four considerations constitute not only a serious case but a clearly evangelical case for conditional immortality. ...

... The doctrine of conditional immortality, quite contrary to the dire claims of many of its detractors and to the expectations of many as they approach it for the first time, is a point of view that deserves to be taken seriously by anyone with a commitment to the concept of doing theology in a way that is not only systematic, but biblical. ..." - Introduction to Evangelical Conditionalist, by Glenn A. Peoples, page 24 - https://www.lutterworth.com/pub/rethinking hell ch2.pdf​

 

Here is William Tyndale's Reply To Sir Thomas More - https://ia800909.us.archive.org/1/items/tyndalesanswer00tynduoft/tyndalesanswer00tynduoft.pdf

Here is the page on which the material about "sleep" may be found - An answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue, The supper of the Lord, after the true meaning of John VI. and 1 Cor. XI., and Wm. Tracy's Testament expounded : Tyndale, William, d. 1536 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

John G Stackhouse Jr:

"... John [G] Stackhouse [Jr] [“the Samuel J. Mikolaski Professor of Religious Studies and Dean of Faculty Development at Crandall University”.- John Stackhouse – Reforming Hell ] prefers the appellation "terminal punishment" for his view that "hell is the situation in which those who do not avail themselves of the atonement made by Jesus in his suffering and death must make their own atonement by suffering and then death, separated from the sustaining life of God and thus disappearing from the cosmos." 6 ... [notation] 6. Stackhouse, "Terminal Punishment," 61-62" ..." - Hell and Divine Goodness: A Philosophical-Theological Inquiry by James S. Spiegel, page 7 [introduction] - Hell and Divine Goodness

For this material from original source, see "Four Views On Hell" by Preston Sprinkle in association with Zondervan Publishing - Four Views on Hell​

 

James S. Spiegel:

"... Biblical Language of Destruction

Repeatedly throughout Scripture, the fate of the wicked is depicted and described as that of utter destruction. 19 The most vivid Old Testament narrative of divine wrath is that of the annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19). It is noteworthy that the apostle Peter declares that God "made then an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly) (2 Pet 2:6). When Abraham looked upon the plain where those two cities once stood, he "saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace" (Gen 19:28), a visible testament to the complete destruction of whose wicked people. In parallel fashion, we are told in Revelation 14 regarding those who are subjected to God's final fury that "the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever" -- again, an image of final destruction.

The Psalms frequently refer to the fact that the wicked will be utterly destroyed. One psalmist compares the perishing of the wicked to wax melting before the fire (Ps. 68:2). In Psalm 1, we read that the wicked "are like chaff that the wind blows away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked leads to destruction" (vv. 4-6). Psalm 37 tells us that those who are evil will wither like grass and "like green plants they will soon die away" (v.2), that soon the "wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found" (v. 10). And a few verses later: "the wicked will perish . . . they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke: (v. 20).

The same theme of utter destruction is echoed throughout Proverbs, as "the wicked are overthrown and are no more" (Prov 12:7), and "the evildoer has no future hope . . . the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out" (Prov 24:20). The prophet Isaiah says, "Do not fear the reproach of mere mortals or be terrified by their insults. For the moth will eat them up like a garment; the worm will devour them like wool" (Isa 51:7-8). These and many other passages depict the complete destruction of the wicked.

In the New Testament, too, we find emphatic language of destruction in reference to the damned. Paul asserts that the wicked "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord [page 19-20]

[notation] 19. For a summary review and categorization of all the biblical references to the fate of the lost, see Wenham, "Case for Conditional Immortality," 79-82. Wenham finds 264 such references, and in all but one of these (Rev 14:11) "there is not a word about unending torment and very many of them in their natural sense clearly refer to destruction" (p. 82).​

and from the majesty of his power" (2 Thess 1:9). And the destruction of the soul in hell is referenced specifically by Jesus, when he says, "do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell" (Matt 10:28). in regards to this passage, John Stott observes, "it would seem strange . . . if people who are said to suffer destruction are not in fact destroyed." 20

Finally, the biblical concept of the destruction of the wicked extends even to the point of extinguishing the memory of them. The psalmist declares of the wicked, "Surely you [God] place them on slippery ground; you cast them down to ruin. How suddenly are they destroyed, completely swept away by terrors! They are like a dream when one awakes; when you arise, Lord, you will despise them as fantasies" (Ps 73:20). Another psalmist puts it even more strongly: "You [God] have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever. Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy, you have uprooted their cities; even the memory of them has perished" (Ps 9:5-6).

Clearly, the destruction of the wicked is a strong scriptural theme. 21 ...

[notation 20 & 21] 20 Stott, "Judgment and Hell," 51. 21. For a fuller discussion of this biblical theme and its implications for the doctrine of hell, see Pinnock, "Destruction," 63-65. ..." - Hell and Divine Goodness: A Philosophical-Theological Inquiry by James S. Spiegel, pages 19-20 - Hell and Divine Goodness​

 

John Wenham:

"... When we come to the New Testament the words used in their natural connotation are words of destruction rather than words suggesting continuance in torment or misery. When preparing this paper I found in my files thirty pages of foolscap (dating, I think, from the forties) on which I had attempted to jot down from the Revised Version all passages referring to life after death. This is probably not a complete list but I have worked through it again and the following interesting statistics result.

I found 264 references to the fate of the lost. Ten (that is 4 per cent) call it Gehenna, which conjures up the imagery of the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem, notorious for the hideous rites of Moloch worship, in which children were thrown alive into the red-hot arms of the god – an abomination in the eyes of the Lord (Lv. 18:21; 20:2-5; 2 Ki. 23:10; 2 Ch. 28:3; 33:6; Je. 7:31; 32:35). It is often said to have been the site of the city’s rubbish tip in the days of Christ, where bodies of criminals and animals were thrown, but evidence for this is late and unreliable. It is in any case an evil place in which are pictured corpses being consumed by fire and maggots as in Isaiah 66 (Mt. 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:33; Mk. 9:43,45,47; Lk. 12:5). Two of these call it the Gehenna of fire.

There are twenty-six other references (that is 10 per cent) to burning up, three of which concern the lake of fire of the Apocalypse. Fire naturally suggests destruction and is much used for the destruction of what is worthless or evil.

It is only by a pedantic use of the modern concept of the conservation of mass and energy that it is possible to say that fire destroys nothing. It has a secondary use as a cause of pain, as in the case of the rich man of the Lazarus story.

Fifty-none (22 per cent) speak of destruction, perdition, utter loss or ruin. Our Lord himself in the Sermon on the Mount uses destruction, which he contrasts with life, as the destination of those who choose the broad road (Mt. 7:13). Paul uses it of ‘the objects of his wrath – prepared for destruction’ (Rom. 9:22); of ‘those who oppose you’ who ‘will be destroyed’ (Phil. 1:28); of the enemies of the cross of Christ whose ‘destiny is destruction’ [page 6-7]

(Phil. 3:19). ‘The man of lawlessness is . . . doomed to destruction’ (2 Thes. 2:3); harmful desires ‘plunge men into ruin and destruction’ (1 Tim. 6:9). Hebrews 10:39 says ‘we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who believe and are saved.’ 2 Peter speaks of ‘destructive heresies . . . bringing swift destruction . . . their destruction has not been sleeping’ (2:1-3). ‘The present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men’ (3:7). The old order will disappear and ‘the elements will be destroyed by fire’ (3:10-12). The beast will ‘go to his destruction’ (Rev. 17:8,11).

The very common word apollumi is frequently used of eternal ruin, destruction and loss, as in John 3:16: ‘should not perish’, but it is also used of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son, who, though metaphorically dead and whose life was in total ruin, was restored (Lk. 15).

Twenty cases (8 per cent) speak of separation from God, which carries no connotation of endlessness unless one presupposes immortality: ‘depart from me’ (Mt. 7:23); ‘cast him into the outer darkness’ (Mt. 22:13); he ‘shall not enter’ the kingdom (Mk. 10:15); ‘one will be taken and the other left (Lk. 17:34); ‘he is cast forth as a branch’ (Jn. 15:6); ‘outside are the dogs’, etc. (Rev. 22:15). This concept of banishment from God is a terrifying one. It does not mean escaping from God, since God is everywhere in his creation, every particle of which owes its continuing existence to his sustaining. It means, surely, being utterly cut off from the source and sustainer of life. It is another way of describing destruction.

Twenty-five cases (10 per cent) refer to death in its finality, sometimes called ‘the second death’. Without resurrection even ‘those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished’ (1 Cor. 15:18). This has been brought out with great force by a number of modern theologians like Oscar Cullmann, Helmut Thielicke and Murray Harris. They show that the teaching of the New Testament is to be sharply contrasted with the Greek notion of the immortality of the soul, which sees death as the release of the soul from the prison of the body. What the Christian looks forward to is not a bodiless entrance ‘into the highest heavens’ at death but a glorious transformation at the Parousia when he is raised from death. Life is contrasted with death, which is a cessation of life, rather than with a continuance of life in misery.

One hundred and eight cases (41 per cent) refer to what I have called unforgiven sin: adverse judgment, in which the penalty is not specified (e.g. ‘they will receive greater condemnation’ (Mk. 12:40)); life forfeited, with the wrath of God resting on the unbeliever (Jn. 3:36); being unsaved, without specifying what the saved are delivered from (Mt. 24:13). Other passages show salvation contrasted with lostness (Mt. 16:25), perishing (1 Cor. 1:18), destruction (Jas. 4:12), condemnation (Mk. 16:16), judgment (Jn. 3:17), death (2 Cor. 7:10), never with everlasting misery or pain. [page 7-8]

Fifteen cases (6 per cent) refer to anguish – this includes tribulation and distress (Rom. 2:9), deliverance to tormentors (Mt. 18:34), outer darkness (Mt. 22:13), wailing and grinding of teeth (Mt. 25:30), the undying worm (Mk. 9:48), beaten with many stripes (Lk. 12:47), the birth-pains of death (Acts 2:24), sorer punishment (Heb. 10:29).

There is one verse (Rev. 14:11) – this represents less than a half of one per cent – which refers to human beings who have no rest, day or night, the smoke of whose torment goes up for ever and ever, which we shall come back to in a moment.

It is a terrible catalogue, giving most solemn warning, yet in all but one of the 264 references there is not a word about unending torment and very many of them in their natural sense clearly refer to destruction. ..." - The Case for Conditional Immortality by John Wenham, as taken from Chapter 27 of Facing Hell: The Story of a Nobody, An Autobiography 1913 - 1996 (Carlisle: Paternoster Press, 1998), pp. 229-257; selected pages 6-8 - https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/Wenham John - The Case for Conditional Immortality.pdf

"... I have thought about this subject for more than fifty years and for more than fifty years I have believed the Bible to teach the ultimate destruction of the lost ..." - The Case for Conditional Immortality by John Wenham, as taken from Chapter 27 of Facing Hell: The Story of a Nobody, An Autobiography 1913 - 1996 (Carlisle: Paternoster Press, 1998), pp. 229-257; selected page 17 - https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/Wenham John - The Case for Conditional Immortality.pdf​

 

Peter Toon, citing Basil Atkinson:

"... Atkinson used all his linguistic gifts to argue that the Bible clearly teaches (1) unconscious existence from death to the general resurrection, (2) the eternal joy of the redeemed in their glorious resurrection bodies from the resurrection and for ever, and (3) the annihilation of the ungodly after they have been raised to appear before the throne of judgement and suitably punished there. And, he insisted, the Bible does not teach the immortality of the soul. Atkinson’s arguments for the annihilation of the person after the last judgement are based [page 1-2] wholly on biblical exegesis: he refuses to use any arguments based upon the character of God and upon ideas of what is just or unjust punishment. ..." - Heaven and Hell: A Biblical and Theological Overview (New York: Thomas Nelson 1986), by Peter Toon, page 177 - Heaven and Hell​

Basil Atkinson:

"... When the spirit is gone, the man is a dead soul (see P. 4). ...

... Job 14: 10-15: The final occurrence of shenah is in the very important passage Job, 14:10‑15 with special reference to verse 12. We cannot cavil at these verses as being uninspired as they are the words of Job, not of any of the three friends (42:7). Here we read that when man dies he wastes away, or according to the margin is weakened or cut off. When his spirit leaves him, “where is he?” that is, he is no longer in being. This is man’s state in death. It would be final were it not for the resurrection both of the just and of the unjust, which makes it temporary and turns death into a sleep. We continue to read in verse 11 following that man lies in the grave without rising (as he does morning by morning in the case of natural sleep). The dead do not awake and are not raised from sleep till the end of the world. Job then asks in his troubles to die and lie in the grave. He asks if a man will live again after death and he answers yes. He waits in the grave all the time that God appoints till his change comes. This is the change described in 1 Corinthians 15:51. Then, he says, God will call and His sleeping servant will hear His voice, answer and come forth in resurrection (John 5:28). ...

... No hint is given in this passage in Job or anywhere else in Scripture that the dead are alive in an invisible world. It is a matter of great thankfulness that most evangelicals who believe that they are have been able to resist successfully the errors that rise from such a belief, yet there is no doubt that it makes easier the road to prayers for the dead, to spiritualism, to Mariolatry and saint worship and to purgatory. ...

... Death is described as sleep in the New Testament more frequently than in the Old. ..." - Life And Immortality by Basil Atkinson (web) - Life and Immortality by Basil Atkinson​