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Is infant baptism from the Bible?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Mar 2, 2020.

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  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    The Bible basically points at the age of accountability, here is a good explanation...
    "Under normal circumstances, we only benefit from Christ’s work by repenting of our sins and trusting in him.

    So what about these exceptional cases, such as infants or others who lack the capacity to believe? Scripture doesn’t explicitly address the issue; it only offers hints that God shows mercy in these cases. Appeal is often made to texts such as 2 Samuel 12:23, where David says he will go and be with his infant son who died. Yet it’s not a definitive text teaching infant salvation. Nevertheless, when all these “hint” texts are investigated and coupled with the truth that the Judge of all the earth always does what’s right (Gen. 18:25), we can unequivocally affirm—and take comfort—that our triune God, who is gracious, merciful, and just, will do what’s right in every case."...Does the Bible Teach an Age of Accountability?
     
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    We have to look at what baptism is and its purpose, I like this study...
    "Note that John the Baptist did his baptizing in the river Jordan. Ever wonder why? A clue is in the definition of baptism. Here are the Greek words used in connection with baptism, from Strong's Greek dictionary:

    G907. baptizo, bap-tid'-zo; from a der. of G911; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N.T.) of ceremonial ablution, espec. (techn.) of the ordinance of Chr. baptism:--baptist, baptize, wash.

    G908. baptisma, bap'-tis-mah; from G907; baptism (techn. or fig.):--baptism.

    G909. baptismos, bap-tis-mos'; from G907; ablution (cerem. or Chr.):--baptism, washing.

    G910. Baptistes, bap-tis-tace'; from G907; a baptizer, as an epithet of Christ's forerunner:--Baptist.

    G911. bapto, bap'-to; a prim. verb; to whelm, i.e. cover wholly with a fluid; in the N.T. only in a qualified or spec. sense, i.e. (lit.) to moisten (a part of one's person), or (by impl.) to stain (as with dye):--dip.

    Apostolic baptism was by full immersion, and that is why John the Baptist used the river Jordan. In other words, the one being baptized was fully dunked under the water, which is clear from the Greek and even acknowledged by the Catholic Church:

    1214 This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death (628), from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."(6)

    Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church, published by Liguori Publications, English translation copyright 1994 by the United States Catholic Conference, Inc.--Libreria Editrice Vaticana, bearing the Imprimi Potest of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, page 312.

    So the New Testament only speaks of baptism by immersion. However, some may point to the book of Ezekiel to validate baptism by sprinkling:

    Ezek 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    Sprinkling of water was part of Israel's ritual cleansing ceremonies (see Numbers 8:7, 19:13, 17-21), which Ezekiel alludes to, but not a single instance of baptism by this method can be verified anywhere in the New Testament. Baptism was only by full immersion. The common practice today of baptism by sprinkling or pouring is simply not supported by the New Testament. It is therefore, nothing but the tradition of men.

    Yet, some may point to Pentecost (Acts 2:41) and use the following rational to justify baptism by pouring:

    "At Pentecost, the thousands who were baptized could not have been baptized by immersion -- Jerusalem had no body of water large enough. (Water was [and is] piped in to the city.) The converts must have been baptized by pouring."

    This makes you think that there were no large bodies of water in Jerusalem, that water was piped directly into homes, in sinks and bathtubs like today, which would make the task of baptizing 3000 by immersion impractical. Most any map of Jerusalem in New Testament times will show there were the following pools of water in the immediate vicinity:

    • Serpent's Pool - to the southwest
    • Tower's Pool - to the west
    • Strouthion Pool - to the northwest
    • Sheep Pool - to the north
    • Pool of Israel - to the north
    • Pool of Bethesda - to the north by the sheep gate
    • Pool of Siloam - to the south
    The Pool of Siloam is mentioned in John 9:7-11 as the place where a blind man received his sight after washing there. Another, the Pool of Bethesda is mentioned in John 5:2-7 which was by the Sheep Gate and frequented by the sick and lame looking for healing.

    In Palestine, water is frequently stored in very large cisterns cut into the rock, some large enough to have spiral staircases cut into them so that one could walk down to the water level to draw water. There would have been an ample number of such pools and/or cisterns in the immediate vicinity of Jerusalem with which to baptize 3000 people by immersion in one day.

    So why immersion? What is the reason for it?

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Baptism is symbolic of burial with Christ, which is the reason for full immersion, and coming up out of the water is symbolic of being raised from the dead to a new and eternal life. This symbolism is not effectively conveyed by sprinkling or pouring.

    Another common practice is the baptism of infants soon after birth. Search the New Testament and you will not find a single instance of an infant being baptized."...http://biblelight.net/baptism.htm
     
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again, to what age. And no, the Bible does not teach that the faith of the parents save the children.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How there be even an Age of accountability, as all of us were born into the sin of Adam and affected by the fall at birth?
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  6. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying real hard to take you seriously here...

    Ok, since you believe babies are morally culpable for their actions, how exactly do you discipline your infant children? Do you spank them? Put them in a "time out"? Ground them? Explain to them the reason for disciplining them?

    Do any of these methods of discipline work?

    Do you know if prisons / jails have an infant / babies block? For example, do you think these children should have faced criminal charges...

    ---> 4-year-old steals grandpa's car to get candy video | 103.7 The Q | Madison

    ---> 5-year-old boy and his 2-year-old brother crash their mom's car - CNN



    Why do you think these children did not face criminal charges?
     
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We aren't talking about man's laws, we are talking about God's punishment. ALL have sinned. Not all except babies. You also didn't answer my question.

    Your side has asserted that babies do not sin because they do not have full use of their faculties. Do quadriplegics sin?
     
  8. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    How do you discipline your infant child when he / she breaks God's commandments? Spank them? Put them in time out? Ground them?

    A quadriplegic who has full use of their intellect and will can certainly sin. However, an infant quadriplegic cannot.
     
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, do we spank very young children? YES! Do you spank them the same way you would a 8 year old? No.

    Do you think an infant can act selfishly? Nowhere in Scripture does it say if someone doesn't have full use of their intellect are they not a sinner. Nowhere.
     
  10. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Really? You spank infants?

    If so, would you be comfortable telling someone from your local department of child services that you spank your infant children?

    If you don't, why not?


    Emotions untethered to reason have no moral value. Man is composed of body and soul and from the age of reason, man’s emotions are subject to guidance, direction and control by reason (albeit with struggle).

    The selfishness witnessed in infants is without fault because it is not based on the full use of their facilities. It is the same reason why an infant who slips out of his car seat, climbs behind the wheel, and steals his parents' car is not culpable of violating the seventh commandment.
     
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I don't think it is their business if I spank a child. But, if asked by an official, I would say yes. And I have yet to see Scripture that says babies do not sin. All have sinned. Period. The only exception is Christ. He is the only one born of virgin and the only one that is also God. (For the record, Mary sinned too...)
     
  12. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Well your profile is public so don't be surprised if someone from the Monroe County Office of Protection and Permanency pays you a visit for admitting you spank your infant children. Admitting you do now makes it their business.


    Again, "sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4) Infants are unable to know nor willfully chose to make a positive act contrary to the law of God.

    If you believe otherwise, then you should force infants to repent. How many infants did Jesus implore to repent?

    All means the totality; every member; without exception. If Christ is an exception, then all doesn't really / literally mean all.
     
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Well considering I don't have any infant children.... LOL

    Besides, is it against the law to spank a child? No. It's not.
     
  14. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    We are discussing infants and I can't imagine anyone spanking an infant.

    There is nothing more innocent than an infant...
     
    #134 Walpole, Mar 17, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2020
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again I said the way you spank a young child is different than the way you spank say an 8 year old. And again, it is not illegal to spank a child.
     
  16. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about infants. That you would spank an infant is horrific.

    For there is nothing more innocent than an infant.
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And at what age is appropriate, in your opinion, to spank a child? And again, what do you think I mean when I say spank for a young child? I bet you have this image of a wooden spoon or belt in hand.... I'm talking about a light tap. Goodness.
     
  18. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Is infant baptism from the Bible?
    Yes, a long ways from the Bible.
     
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  19. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    When they are old enough to understand why something is wrong. This would preclude infants.

    A light tap or any other hitting of an infant is wrong. There is none so as innocent as an infant and I could never imaging spanking, hitting or "lightly tapping" this selfish infant...

    [​IMG]

    That you think it is morally permissible is horrific.
     
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    How exactly are you defining "infant"?
     
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