Featured Any Here Hold that we are not born with a sin nature?

You can't prove this statement either.
MB

 

If Adam, who was the figure of him to come, had been obedient would there have been any need for Christ.

What about the devil the sinner from the beginning. Was this sin before man? Did the devil have sinful works before man was created? Was man necessary for the manifestation of the Son of God? He was manifested as the Son of Man, wasn't he?

Heb 2:14 YLT Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

Isn't it that same death, shed blood, by which we are redeemed from sin and death? Slain from the foundation of the world?

It's that redemption that destroys the devil and his works.

Consider:
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Now does that not take place at the same time as?

“O Death, where is your sting?[fn]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[fn]

Is that when the devil is totally destroyed?

 

I should have worded it as Adam was created with a nature, subject to sin which would bring forth death. Which in reality is, a sin nature.


What does Psalms 8:5 say?
Is the 'elohiym of Psalms 8:5 the same 'elohiym of Gen 1:26,27?

BTW In what manner are we presently not equal to the angels? Can angels die?

 

If you mean that Adam had the capacity to sin (rebellion), then I agree. God ordained that capacity.
Jesus, being God, did not have the capacity to sin that Adam had.

 

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Btw... It's best to let scripture speak for itself thereby there is no confusion... According to scripture we are in Adams image and likeness now, NOT Gods... Brother Glen

 

I understand that the creation was inclusive. I also understand before the man sinned this was said; And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it, whatever to dress it and to keep it means.

Also if the vanity/futility of Rom 8:20 is a result of the sin of Adam, then Adam willingly brought the vanity/futility upon himself whereas the verse says the exact opposite.

It appears to me that God with purpose subjected the creation that was finished upon his resting to vanity, in HOPE?

Before the foundation of the world there was a plan.

Let me ask? What was wrong before the foundation of the world? Before the foundation of the world, why did there need to be a plan?

Here is a thought.

Gen 1:4,5 And God seeth the light that good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one.

Rev 22:5 and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign -- to the ages of the ages.

Where did the Night go? What happened to the darkness? Maybe it was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Why was the man created?

 

I believe that fallen mankind is capable of making free will choices to accept or reject the gospel message. I believe in the inherent free will ability of fallen unsaved mankind to accept/believe or reject God’s call/drawing/convicting/convincing/persuading teaching work using the creation, the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit (Rom. 1:18-20; Rom. 10:8-17; 1Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12; Luke 8:21; Jn. 15:26, 16:13; 2 Thess. 2:13).

If just having knowledge of good and evil means/indicates that man is fallen and condemned, then why is not God’s nature also fallen and condemned because Gen. 3:22 states that man (Adam and Eve) has become like God knowing good and evil? However, the majority of Scripture indicates that God’s nature is pure good (holy, righteous and just); therefore, it is probably not just possession of mere knowledge of good and evil that indicates that Adam and Eve (mankind) are condemned and fallen since God already told Adam and Eve what was the good thing to do (to obey His commands) and what the evil thing to do (to disobey His commands) was before they sinned by disobeying God’s instructions; therefore, because of Romans 2:15 and 7:23, I believe most likely it is an internal fallen corrupted bipolar nature of good and evil (one pole is good and the other pole is evil), not a single poled fallen nature of evil, produced in Adam and Eve (as Cavinists and Arminians teach) when they sinned by disobeying God’s command that condemns fallen mankind, and this fallen bipolar nature of good and evil is what internally drives mankind to do good and evil (at the discretion of their free wills) and also gives mankind an inherent internal knowledge of good and evil. Calvinist’s teach that fallen mankind has only an inherent single poled nature of evil that does not move/drive men and women to do good. This fallen bipolar nature (having a good pole and an evil pole) in fallen mankind would account for the inherent internal drive to do both good and evil and also give mankind inherent internal basic knowledge of good and evil after many generations later when mankind had lost all verbal and written records of information from God following the fall of man in the garden of Eden. Many Calvinists teach that a person has to be indwelt first by the (Holy Spirit) (regenerated, born again) in order to obtain a will to do the good thing of believing in Christ as their savior. All Calvinists teach that man has to have God first perform an effective magical supernatural transformation of a person’s will into a believing will (even if they do not call it regeneration, born again) because they believe man’s internal single poled evil nature does not have a good pole that also internally drives man to do good, especially the good of making a free will decision to repent and accept Jesus as their savior.

In the book of Romans, God through Paul gives strong evidence that mankind has a bipolar nature having two poles (one pole is good and the other pole is evil). In Rom. 2:15 the Holy Spirit states through the Apostle Paul that the gentiles have the law written in their hearts which I believe, is strong, biblical evidence of the good spiritual pole of the bipolar nature of fallen mankind. In Rom. 7:23 the Holy Spirit has the Apostle Paul state that a law of sin dwells in his members which I believe, is strong, biblical evidence of the evil spiritual pole of the bipolar nature of fallen mankind. I believe this spiritual bipolar fallen nature of good and evil pulling on the will of man also gives man what the Bible calls a conscience, Rom. 2:15.

Therefore, I believe it is more accurate to described fallen mankind as being born corrupted bipolar sinners [The unsaved old man (Rom. 6:6; Eph.4:22; Col. 3:9)] having bipolar hearts/natures (“the heart is deceitful above all things….” – Jer. 17:9) with two spiritual poles (good and evil) because of Adam’s and Eve’s sin; that is, fallen/corrupted/sinful mankind has a spiritually bipolar nature of good and evil, a good pole and an evil pole (Gen. 2:16-17; Gen. 3:1-7; Rom. 1:19, Rom. 2:14-15, Rom. 7:15-25) internally pulling on our free wills, rather than just externally pulling on our wills as took place with God’s external commands and instructions and the external temptation of the serpent that took place in the garden of Eden – thus, man knowing good and evil is the result of the fallen bipolar nature received when Adam and Eve sinned by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because one pole of man’s bipolar fallen nature is evil, it inclines unsaved mankind and saved mankind towards sin and good, thus ensuring that morally capable people will sin and not be able to live a perfect sinless life. The new man (born again person) is a Christian born again (indwelt by the Holy Spirit and should be willingly walking in/after the Spirit); that is, the new man has a good spiritual pole, an evil spiritual pole and the indwelling Holy Spirit all pulling on our wills and we should be (of his/our own free will) willingly walking in/after the Spirit (Eph. 3:16, Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 7:24-8:26; Gal. 5:16-25) in order to have higher success rate of more consistently living Godly lives.

I refer to myself as an “inherent-free-willer” Christian, which means I believe in the inherent free will ability of fallen unsaved mankind to accept/believe or reject God’s call/drawing/convicting/convincing/persuading teaching work using the creation, the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit (Rom. 1:18-20; Rom. 10:8-17; 1Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12; Luke 8:21; Jn. 15:26, 16:13; 2 Thess. 2:13).

My limited knowledge of early Christian history, so far, has led me to conclude that when the early Christians concluded that fallen mankind had only one nature, that was only evil, the door was opened for pagan unconditional determinism and unconditional predestination to be easily injected into Christianity (by saying man lost his free will capacity to choose good or evil when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) ultimately resulting in the development of an anemic puppeteering, bipolar (good and evil) sovereign God concept and Calvinism's no free will of man TULIP soteriology.