Any Here Hold that we are not born with a sin nature?

[percho]

What are you even talking about? You now have left the two verses you originally posted and now you move to verses in Acts. I cannot follow your train of thought at all.
Rather than answer with clarity, you just keep muddying the water so that no one knows what you are actually saying.
Is there someone at the BB with the gift of interpreting tongues? Please, a little help here.

Those verses in Acts show the same thing the other verses stated.

David on that day was stilled buried and had seen corruption. The soul of David which was once living on that day was dead and left in Hades. The spirit that had once made David living soul had returned to God who had given it.<Assumed yet not stated in Acts because of what is stated in say Ecc 12:7 and Luke 23:46. That's where the spirit of lives goes at death.

 

[agedman]

Adam had that Image of God in total and in perfect, we are born flawed and marred due to the Fall!

Adam was created “very good” but Scriptures do not support the word “perfect.”

 

[Yeshua1]

Adam was created “very good” but Scriptures do not support the word “perfect.”

So what He was he lacking then in his first estate as creation of God?

 

[AustinC]

Those verses in Acts show the same thing the other verses stated.

David on that day was stilled buried and had seen corruption. The soul of David which was once living on that day was dead and left in Hades. The spirit that had once made David living soul had returned to God who had given it.<Assumed yet not stated in Acts because of what is stated in say Ecc 12:7 and Luke 23:46. That's where the spirit of lives goes at death.

Sorry, you make no sense.
Interpreter needed. Anyone out there?

 

[agedman]

Sorry, you make no sense.
Interpreter needed. Anyone out there?

@percho considers that the soul and spirit separate at death.
If I recall, he does consider Hades as split and one part that of punishment and the other as that of paradise. Such was taught by our Lord in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

The question Percho ask is where was David's soul at Pentecost if the body was still in the grave.

The assumption that I make is that paradise was removed and believers upon death are "with the Lord." That such took place when the Lord ascended.

If I have not constructed Percho's statements correctly, then he may attend to the matter.

 

[AustinC]

@percho considers that the soul and spirit separate at death.
If I recall, he does consider Hades as split and one part that of punishment and the other as that of paradise. Such was taught by our Lord in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

The question Percho ask is where was David's soul at Pentecost if the body was still in the grave.

The assumption that I make is that paradise was removed and believers upon death are "with the Lord." That such took place when the Lord ascended.

If I have not constructed Percho's statements correctly, then he may attend to the matter.

If you are interpreting @percho correctly, what does any of this have to do with the OP?

 

[agedman]

If you are interpreting @percho correctly, what does any of this have to do with the OP?

I don't know.

What was the OP about????

Usually, by the second page, a thread takes to trekking down some trail looking for life on another planet.

 

[MB]

Adam had that Image of God in total and in perfect, we are born flawed and marred due to the Fall!

We all are created in the image of God.
MB

 

[percho]

The OP.

Yes we are born with a sin nature but not because of the fall of Adam but because of his creation.

At creation Adam had a sin nature that upon sin would bring death which the devil had the power thereof, otherwise he could not have sinned.

 

[AustinC]

The OP.

Yes we are born with a sin nature but not because of the fall of Adam but because of his creation.

At creation Adam had a sin nature that upon sin would bring death which the devil had the power thereof, otherwise he could not have sinned.

So, you believe God created Adam with a natural rebellion against him. I disagree.

 

[percho]

So, you believe God created Adam with a natural rebellion against him. I disagree.

Fine, however that is why we have rabbit trails from OP's.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The creation is complete including man at this moment. ----- Why was the man created, and why was he created in the image of God?

Where is the devil at this moment in time? Is the devil already a sinner see 1 John 3:8 Has the sinful devil already at this moment done sinful works? -------- At this moment does God have a plan for destroying the devil and the works of the devil?

The answer is yes and it requires for the Son of God to come in the figure of Adam and it requires sin, death for sin and redemption from death.

If any man other than Christ had been obedient then there would have been no need for Christ unto righteousness,

All have to be under sin in order for the promise of God to come by the faith of Jesus Christ (Anointed). Gal 3:21

Adam was going to sin and he was created subject to death, God was out to get the devil.

 

[percho]

Did the Potter (God) mold the lump (Adam) to choose what vessel he wanted to be?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:20,21

God had a purpose for Adam before he molded him.

 

[percho]

IMHO

 

[agedman]

We all are created in the image of God.
MB

How do you present that image?

Does it have physical, moral, intellectual, emotional, ... attributes that are a reflection of God or would you view the image more in the manner of saying a paper air plain may function according to the same principles as a factory build transport jet (thrust, drag, lift, weight)?

What is your thinking when you use the term "image of God?"

 

[percho]

for to vanity was the creation (On the 7th Day) (Adam) made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, > through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, > and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, Heb 5:8 Phil 2:7 - Resurrection - wherefore, (Because of obedience) also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name Phil 2:8

gave him a name

in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they. For to which of the messengers said He ever, 'My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, 'I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?' Heb 1:2,4,4

Just another rabbit trail from the creation of Adam sin and death.

 

[agedman]

The OP.

Yes we are born with a sin nature but not because of the fall of Adam but because of his creation.

At creation Adam had a sin nature that upon sin would bring death which the devil had the power thereof, otherwise he could not have sinned.

Fine, however that is why we have rabbit trails from OP's.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The creation is complete including man at this moment. ----- Why was the man created, and why was he created in the image of God?

Where is the devil at this moment in time? Is the devil already a sinner see 1 John 3:8 Has the sinful devil already at this moment done sinful works? -------- At this moment does God have a plan for destroying the devil and the works of the devil?

The answer is yes and it requires for the Son of God to come in the figure of Adam and it requires sin, death for sin and redemption from death.

If any man other than Christ had been obedient then there would have been no need for Christ unto righteousness,

All have to be under sin in order for the promise of God to come by the faith of Jesus Christ (Anointed). Gal 3:21

Adam was going to sin and he was created subject to death, God was out to get the devil.

Did the Potter (God) mold the lump (Adam) to choose what vessel he wanted to be?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:20,21

God had a purpose for Adam before he molded him.

These are interesting points.

Though I don't agree in full with your thinking, I can understand the logic and deductions you made.

I think I would probably hold more to the thinking that at creation Adam had the freedom to choose to rebel. He, unlike all future progeny, did make a conscious choice. His nature was not evil, but neither was it divinely endowed by the Holy Spirit.

Adam chose to rebel. All make that same choice, but do not have (because of the corrupted human nature) the freedom Adam had in making that choice. Humankind now rebels because that is part of their nature, and not because they are born with the freedom to make any other choice.

 

[agedman]

for to vanity was the creation (On the 7th Day) (Adam) made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, > through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, > and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, Heb 5:8 Phil 2:7 - Resurrection - wherefore, (Because of obedience) also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name Phil 2:8

gave him a name

in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they. For to which of the messengers said He ever, 'My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, 'I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?' Heb 1:2,4,4

Just another rabbit trail from the creation of Adam sin and death.

Your quotation of Romans 8 misplaces Adam instead of all that was created.

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
​

Adam was created, but this passage is pertaining to all that was created.

For example, the ground resists the crop and supplants weeds for what is desired. This is a result of the subjection of God. Prior to Adam's sin, there were no "weeds" to contend for space in the garden.

John 3:16 uses the word "kosmos" which is all that was created, not just humankind.

 

[AustinC]

Fine, however that is why we have rabbit trails from OP's.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The creation is complete including man at this moment. ----- Why was the man created, and why was he created in the image of God?

Where is the devil at this moment in time? Is the devil already a sinner see 1 John 3:8 Has the sinful devil already at this moment done sinful works? -------- At this moment does God have a plan for destroying the devil and the works of the devil?

The answer is yes and it requires for the Son of God to come in the figure of Adam and it requires sin, death for sin and redemption from death.

If any man other than Christ had been obedient then there would have been no need for Christ unto righteousness,

All have to be under sin in order for the promise of God to come by the faith of Jesus Christ (Anointed). Gal 3:21

Adam was going to sin and he was created subject to death, God was out to get the devil.

You have stated that Adam was created with a sin nature. Yet, Genesis 1:27 says God created man in his own image. Therefore, God, by your logic, has a sin nature because Adam was created with a sin nature.

I disagree with you.

 

[Yeshua1]

We all are created in the image of God.
MB

Adam was in a complete picture image, we are all born corrupted and mangled image!

 

[MB]

How do you present that image?

Does it have physical, moral, intellectual, emotional, ... attributes that are a reflection of God or would you view the image more in the manner of saying a paper air plain may function according to the same principles as a factory build transport jet (thrust, drag, lift, weight)?

What is your thinking when you use the term "image of God?"

Physical appearance only.If we had the same morals, intellect, and emotions as God. We would be like God. I do not wish to be God. I wish to serve and I do.
MB