Any Here Hold that we are not born with a sin nature?

[Yeshua1]

What do you about God telling Adam that the day he eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he would surely die.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

We are not told of Adams spirituality nor are we told of his nature. They call Christ the second Adam bGod gave him a sinless humanity when made!ut personally I don't see how because Christ was God and Adam was a man. Christ being God first and man second resisted temptation but Adam could not.
MB

Adam certainly could have resisted sinning, as the Lord created him with a sinless human nature!

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you saying Adam was saved and lost his Salvation when he sinned. The Bible never says Adam lost his freewill that's only in your imagination. No where in scripture does it ever say we are just a bunch of puppets on a string. That we can only act and do what God has directed.
MB

Adam was spiritual alive to God when created. became spiritual dead when he sinned and fell, and all of us were born into Him and thus also share sinful nature!

 

[Yeshua1]

When Adam was created there was no need for salvation. So...no...I'm not saying what you are concluding.

I am saying that Adam broke the covenant God made with Adam and thus suffered the consequences of the curse.

Free will is never discussed in the Bible outside one reference to a free will offering under the Mosaic Law.

I am saying that Adam and all his offspring have no capacity to choose God and thus be saved by our great choice.
I can point to a Sovereign and say "save me". That Sovereign is under zero obligation to do what I ask or plead for. The Sovereign makes the choice as to whether or not He will save me. I cannot coerce the Sovereign or impress Him so that he makes his decision based upon my goodness.
Thus, I don't have free will. I have the ability to ask, but I don't have the ability to choose. Only God can choose to save me.

John 1:13!

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture never says we don't have freewill either. It never calls God Sovereign but in stead is described as all powerful and mighty God. However it does say
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
So then one who believes can be saved by there faith.
Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
All we have to do is repent and ask. You can deny what the scripture says but certainly you aren't abel to tell me where in scripture it says we are first regenerated so we can hat?called were saved in Acts when peter preached his sermon, correcdGod ve faith.
MB

As many as God called to Jesus were saved by sermon of peter in acts, correct? As God added daily?

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree that it is God's will to save those who believe in God's Son, I disagree that God saves us against our will and forces us to believe. How ever if the woman at the well would have known who He was and simply asked Him she would have been saved


I agree that is by God's will that if we believe and ask we will be saved.
MB

God grants to us the faith even to believe!

 

[agedman]

Have you read and considered all that Jn 10 actually says
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. through Jesus we will be saved.
This certainly implies if we enter in we will be saved. It does not say if we are elect will be saved.
MB

Ripping a single phrase from the passage does not support your view, rather may show a certain desperation.

In that same John 10, the Lord Jesus in response to the rulers demands pertaining to His authority says,

25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”​

John 10 provides your thinking no ground.


Even in that which you selected, the context does not support your claim.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”​

Btw, what Bible version do you use that does not include the word sovereign or some related word (synonym)? Certainly it must be a rare or unknown version. For all versions do use the word Lord (Sovereign, Master) do they not?

The word “Lord” “despotés” from which we get despot is in fact translated as Sovereign, master. One who singularity in final authority and has of unfettered complete jurisdiction over all matters.

Perhaps you didn’t realize this.

 

[MB]

Adam certainly could have resisted sinning, as the Lord created him with a sinless human nature!

That's funny since it was the first recording of him being tempted and he caved in and sinned he didn't even think it over. He was afraid he would loose Eve I can only suppose he loved Eve more than God.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Get a different when the one I have is the most accurate.
Your wrong I do not struggle with scripture at all certainly not Eph 2:1-10 I understand it perfectly
Strange you making like you are elect when scripture never says a Gentile is elect. Seems like you are trying to steal the favor of God. Gentiles are not elect and you can't prove you are. You claim I've been told and you are right there I have been told the heresies of the Calvinist religion but I stand on scripture for my Salvation what on earth do you stand on?. Oh I know your own private interpretation.
MB.

LOL, you're stubborn, even when proven wrong.

 

[MB]

Adam was spiritual alive to God when created. became spiritual dead when he sinned and fell, and all of us were born into Him and thus also share sinful nature!

Prove it? If Adam were spiritually alive who's Spirit did he have when He sinned. If it was the Holy Spirit who is God Him Self whom all who believe in him do have dwelling with in them selves. Then how is it that He died when Adam sinned?
MB

 

[AustinC]

That's funny since it was the first recording of him being tempted and he caved in and sinned he didn't even think it over. He was afraid he would loose Eve I can only suppose he loved Eve more than God.
MB

At least you admit your supposition...

 

[AustinC]

Prove it? If Adam were spiritually alive who's Spirit did he have when He sinned. If it was the Holy Spirit who is God Him Self whom all who believe in him do have dwelling with in them selves. Then how is it that He died when Adam sinned?
MB

Was Adam found in Christ or was he perfect in himself?

You are projecting the Holy Spirit upon Adam, who was without sin.

Do you see your dilemma?

 

[MB]

As many as God called to Jesus were saved by sermon of peter in acts, correct? As God added daily?

Not true to scripture it is Jesus who saves. Peters sermon didn't save anyone.
MB

 

[MB]

At least you admit your supposition...

It is you who can't back up what you claim. You can't prove you are elect, You can't prove that you were changed so you could believe. In fact you haven't proven any of your claims. Don't you ever read the Bible.
MB

 

[MB]

Was Adam found in Christ or was he perfect in himself?

You are projecting the Holy Spirit upon Adam, who was without sin.

Do you see your dilemma?

What delimma? You are the one making the claim that Adam was spiritual and that he lost his spiritually. Sounds to me like he was saved and then lost his Salvation. You see I don't believe Adam was any different than anyone else. Being spiritually alive means we have the Holy Spirit present with in us. Adam was sinless until He sinned so is every man sinless until they sin. Scripture never says we are born sinners it says we are "born in sin" we aren't sinners until we sin. and we cannot sin with out the Law no one sins until they know the Law.
MB

 

[MB]

God grants to us the faith even to believe!

prove it with scripture The Bible does not say this at all. This is just more heresy.
MB

 

[MB]

LOL, you're stubborn, even when proven wrong.

In your dreams you have never proved scripture wrong.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Was Adam found in Christ or was he perfect in himself?

You are projecting the Holy Spirit upon Adam, who was without sin.

Do you see your dilemma?

Before He fell, Adam was in relationship to God His Creator, so did not need the Mediator or to have the Holy Spirit indwelling him yet!

 

[Yeshua1]

prove it with scripture The Bible does not say this at all. This is just more heresy.
MB

Would you see as us having a sin nature? Do we have free will to decide to accept Jesus ourselves still, apart from God doing anything towards us then?

 

[AustinC]

It is you who can't back up what you claim. You can't prove you are elect, You can't prove that you were changed so you could believe. In fact you haven't proven any of your claims. Don't you ever read the Bible.
MB

Funny.

The faith God has gifted to me is my proof.

Now, your response is interesting since you are incapable of saying that you are saved. Instead, you have consistently stated that you are...being saved. It's possible, in your theology, that you could die in your sins, apart from God.

Meanwhile, I am confident, by the faith gifted to me by God, that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit and immersed by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus so that in Christ I am made holy, seated before the throne of God.

This is present tense and future assurance.

Ephesians 2:4-6 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

You have, to my knowledge, never been able to affirm that you are, past, present, future, saved.

 

[tyndale1946]

Funny.

The faith God has gifted to me is my proof.

Now, your response is interesting since you are incapable of saying that you are saved. Instead, you have consistently stated that you are...being saved. It's possible, in your theology, that you could die in your sins, apart from God.

Meanwhile, I am confident, by the faith gifted to me by God, that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit and immersed by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus so that in Christ I am made holy, seated before the throne of God.

This is present tense and future assurance.

Ephesians 2:4-6 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

You have, to my knowledge, never been able to affirm that you are, past, present, future, saved.

To be called a sinner is a condition... Sinning does not cause the condition, the condition was passed down from Adam, who sinned... The condition of being a sinner causes the action to sin... And this is the way The Apostle Paul said it!... Any questions?... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.