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Featured Was Bible possesion banned by the Catholic Church?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Apr 10, 2020.

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  1. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    So what's the point of threads like this other than to once again bash the Catholic Church for things that happened in the past? This is not the way the church is operating today so why can we not live in the present and look towards a better future?

    You folks have no standing to talk about other faith traditions. Protestantism itself has many problems with the thousands of sects that exist within it, including Baptists and SDA folks who themselves are at odds theologically with mainline Protestant churches.

    How you can see the splinter in my eye with the board in your own eye is beyond my comprehension.
     
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  2. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, documented through you error filled interpretation of the same scriptures we read.
     
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  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    They are trying a different tactic, if you cant take away their Bibles and destroy the 'sects' that way, then bring them back to apostasy, with the lure of ecumenism.

    "The "Christian" ecumenical movement had its roots back in apostolic times. The apostle Paul warned his brethren that "the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work." II Thessalonians 2:7. Even at that time he saw "small errors" creeping into the church that would eventually snowball into a giant endtime mystery system of false religion.

    Many gnostic/christian sects formed and were later unified under Simon Magus. This Simon the sorcerer welded his brand of Gnostic-mithraism with the principles of true Christianity to form a mock Christian system that was confused with the original. This false form of Christianity is the root of modern Christianity. It is mere paganism "blended" with the "faith once delivered," which took the deceiving name "Christianity" and sent the true worship of God underground re-identifying it as a heretical cult.

    This was one of the characteristics of the "Mystery Religions"--the ability to "morph" into a modified religion, any customs or traditions from other belief systems that it gathered from other religions. The way to do this effectively was to avoid any doctrines that might divide or keep separate the religions and to focus on simple commonalties in worship."... ECUMENICAL MOVEMENT FOR UNITY
     
  4. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    More nonsense.

    All hail the prophetess Ellen White! Now that's a false and fake religion if I ever saw one.
     
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  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, but popes, cardinals, "queena hevvin", prayers to the dead, celibacy for clergy, etc. are not commanded in Scripture.
     
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    First, there are many sects within the Catholic church. Baptist churches are all independent and cannot be tied to another Baptist church. What one dies is not an indictment on any other Baptist church.

    Baptists are mainline evangelical "protestant" churches.
     
  7. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but all those sects within the church see the Bishop of Rome as their head Bishop.

    As far as Baptists being "mainline" Protestant I beg to differ. You reject the "Real Presence" of Christ in Holy Communion and you reject infant baptism to name just two things. You folks have gone your own way on many doctrinal issues and your scriptural interpretation differs greatly from the mainline Protestant churches.
     
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  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You can beg all you want.
     
  9. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    As for any bishop being more than the next, you know that is not scriptural but that's another issue will have to look at. So it doesn't take much to uncover what church for more than 1000 years, openly condemned the reading of the Bible and even persecuted those caught with copies of the Scriptures in their possession. Just take a look as these historical statements:

    "At the Council of Toulouse (1229 A.D), papal church leaders ruled: "We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the Old and New Testament ... We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular." "'The lords of the districts shall carefully seek out the heretics in dwellings, hovels, and forests, and even their underground retreats shall be entirely wiped out." Pope Gregory IX, Council Tolosanum, 1229 A.D.

    The Council of Tarragona also ruled that: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after the promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned." D. Lortsch, Histoire de la Bible en France, 1910, p. 14.

    The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary."

    "Since it is clear from experience that if the Sacred Books are permitted everywhere and without discrimination in the vernacular (in the common language of the people, D.R.) there will by reasons of the boldness of men arise therefrom more harm than good..." Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, p. 274.

    The attempt to keep the Bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII (1800-1823) denounced Bible Societies and expressed shock at the circulation of the Scriptures. This Pope declared, "It is evidence from experience, that the holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit."
    Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed: "against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue."

    Pope Leo XII called the Protestant Bible the "Gospel of the Devil" in an encyclical letter of 1824. In January 1850, he also condemned Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has "long been condemned by the holy chair."

    Pope Leo XIII declared, "As it has been clearly shown by experience that, if the holy Bible in the vernacular is generally permitted without any distinction, more harm than utility is thereby caused..." Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, pp. 412-413.

    On December 8, 1866, after European Bible societies had been formed to translate and spread the Word of God, Pope Pius IX, in his encyclical Quanta Cura, issued this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies... pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."... http://www.whitehorsemedia.com
     
  10. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    All hail the prophetess Ellen White!
     
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  11. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    So tell me where you are sympatico with the Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans - pick one, any one. John Smythe, the founder of the Baptist faith tradition himself rejected the Anglican communion in favor of his own newfound doctrines.
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are also the frindge cult groups, like Sda/JW/Mormons, whose founders all taught that they alone had the real and true Christian doctrines to heed!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We Baptists followed solo scriptura!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    2 Cult churches going at it, its just yours has been teaching heresy longer than his!
     
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  15. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    Said the "Reverend."
     
  16. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is from book on the Reformation..
    HISTORY OF THE REFORMATION IN THE TIME OF CALVIN VOL. 3
    by J.H. Merle d’Aubigne BOOK 5 STRUGGLES OF THE REFORMATION.
    CHAPTER 2 PLOT OF THE WOMEN AGAINST REFORM;
    FAREL’S PREACHING. pg. 199

    Farel, without possessing the iconoclastic ardor which Hollard displayed ere long, was indignant at the worship paid to the images of the saints, and strove against them with the arms of the Word. ‘The people,’ he said, ‘set candles before the saints who are out of this world and have nothing to do with them... While if those saints were alive and had need of a light to read the Gospel by, instead of giving them candles, you would tear out their eyes!’... Then scandalized at the disorderly living of the world and the Church, the christian orator exclaimed: ‘Farces full of scoffing, filth, ribaldry; obscene and idle songs, books full of vanity, lewdness, falsehood and blasphemy, wicked and illicit conversations... all this is suffered openly... But the New Testament which contains the doctrine and passion of Christ is forbidden, as if it were the Koran of Mahomet, or a book of
    witch- craft and enchantment
    ... O Sun, canst thou pour thy light on such
    countries? O Earth, canst thou give thy fruits to such people? And thou,
    O Lord God, is thy vengeance so slow against such a great outrage? Arise,
    O Lord, and let the trumpet of thy holy Gospel be heard unto the ends of
    the earth.’


    HISTORY OF THEREFORMATION IN THE TIME OF CALVIN VOL. 4
    by J.H. Merle d’Aubigne BOOK 7 CHAPTER 3
    FAREL, MAISONNEUVE,
    AND FURBITY IN GENEVA.
    Pg. 205
    The new year was to make the balance incline to the side of the Reformation; accordingly the clergy, as if terrified at the future, resolved to destroy the tree by the roots, and inaugurated the first day of the year 1534 by an extraordinary proclamation. ‘In the name of Monseigneur of Geneva and of his vicar,’ said the priests from all the pulpits, ‘it is ordered that no one shall preach the Word of God, either in public or in private, and that all the books of Holy Scripture, whether in French or in German, shall be burnt.’ The reformed, who were present in great numbers in the church, were staggered at the new-year’s gift which the bishop
    presented to his people......................................

    Meanwhile the episcopal mandate was causing disturbance in the city.
    ‘Forbid the preaching of the Gospel,’ said some; ‘burn the holy books! What a horrible notion! The Mahometans never did anything like it with regard to the Koran, or the Ghebers with the books of Zoroaster. Those who are charged to preach the Word of God are the very men to condemn it to the flames! ‘Thus catholics and evangelicals took up arms — the former to destroy the Bible, the others to defend it.

    HISTORY OF THE REFORMATION IN THE TIME OF CALVIN VOL. 6
    by J.H. Merle d’Aubigne, BOOK 10, CHAPTER 7
    CONFESSORS OF THE GOSPEL AND MARTYRS
    ARE MULTIPLIED IN SCOTLAND
    pg. 89

    The clergy had now got rid of Hamilton, Seaton, and Alesius; but they were nevertheless disquieted because they knew that the Holy Scriptures were in Scotland. Notice was therefore given in every parish that ‘it is forbidden to sell or to read the New Testament.’ All copies found in the shops were ordered to be burnt. Alesius, who was in Germany at that
    time, was greatly afflicted, and resolved to speak.
    ‘I hear, sire,’ he wrote to the king, ‘that the bishops are driving souls away from the oracles of Christ. Could the Turks do anything worse? Would morality exist in independence of the Holy Scriptures? Would religion itself be anything else than a certain discipline of public manners? That is the doctrine of Epicurus; but what will become of the Church if the bishops propagate Epicurean dogmas? God ordains that we should hear the Son, not as a doctor who philosophises on the theory of morals, but as a prophet who reveals holy things unknown to the world. If the bishops promote the infliction of the severest penalties on those who hear his word, the knowledge of Jesus Christ will become extinct, and the people will take up pagan opinions.

    HISTORY OF THE REFORMATION IN THE TIME OF CALVIN VOL. 7
    by J.H. Merle d’Aubigne BOOK 13. CHAPTER 11.
    THE VICTIMS OF CHARLES THE FIFTH.
    pgs. 437&438

    These are the last two lines of his epitaph, written by himself. f805 Sartorius was one of the noblest combatants of the Reformation. Although the doctors had to take their flight, the Holy Scriptures and the Christian books remained. It is even possible that Mary of Hungary secretly promoted the printing of the Bible. This sacred book was eagerly read in the Netherlands. ‘Ah,’ people used to say, ‘it is because many of the dogmas taught by the clergy are not to be found in the oracles of God, that the reading of them is so rigorously prohibited.’ Thus the wrath of Charles and of his councilors was kindled against the authors, the printers,
    and the readers of these books which contradicted Rome; and a new placard made its appearance (1531), drawn up with a refinement of cruelty. It was posted up in all the provinces, and ran thus — ‘It is forbidden to write, to print, or to cause to be printed or written any book whatsoever without permission of the bishops. If anyone do so, he shall be put in the pillory; the executioner shall take a cross of iron, he shall heat it red-hot, and applying it to his person shall brand him; or he shall pluck out one of his eyes, or cut off one of his hands, at the discretion of the judge.’ The papacy in the sixteenth century was not in favor of freedom of the press.

    HISTORY OF THE REFORMATION IN THE TIME OF CALVIN VOL. 8
    by J.H. Merle d’Aubigne BOOK 14. THE SPANISH MARTYRS. CHAPTER 4.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT IN SPANISH PRESENTED TO CHARLES THE FIFTH BY ENZINAS.
    (1542-1545.)


    pg. 63- The persecution which had befallen a great number of his friends now absorbed all his thoughts; but when the storm had somewhat abated, his project of translating his Spanish translation of the New Testament again engaged his attention. Being modest, as distinguished men generally are, he felt some hesitation when he considered how great an enterprise it was, especially for a young man like himself. ‘I do not wish,’ he said, ‘to accomplish this work in obedience to my own impulse alone.’ He therefore consulted several men belonging to different nations and eminent for their learning and wisdom. All of them approved his project, and begged him to hasten the printing. ‘Since the birth of Jesus Christ,’ say some of the monks, even among the superstitious, ‘so great a benefit has never been offered to the Spanish people.’ ‘I could wish,’ said another, ‘to see that book printed, were it even with my own blood.’ Enzinas took another step even more humble, and which might have compromised him.

    It was necessary that theological books should receive the sanction of the faculty of theology. ‘Assuredly,’ said Enzinas, ‘this was never required, nor ought to be required, for the Holy Scriptures. But no matter. He sent his translation to the dean of Louvain by a monk of his acquaintance. The members of the faculty, after conferring together, replied, ‘We do not know Spanish; but we know that every heresy in the Netherlands proceeded from reading the sacred book in the vulgar tongue. It would, therefore, be advisable not to furnish the common people in Spain with an opportunity of refuting the decrees of the Church by the words of Jesus Christ, the prophets, and the apostles. But since the emperor has not forbidden it, we give neither permission nor prohibition.’ The reply was at least candid and ingenuous...................

    pg. 64 There were, in fact, at this time in the Low Countries dignitaries of the Spanish Church whose eyes were open and who would not fail to use every effort to hinder the printing of the Holy Scriptures in Spanish.

    Amongst others was the archbishop of Compostella, Don Gaspar d’Avalos, a man whom Spanish devotees considered, on account of the perfection of his ultramontane doctrine, as a divinity among mortals, but whom men of sound judgment regarded as a fanatic. Filled with abhorrence for the holy doctrine of the gospel, he took every opportunity of contending against and uprooting it. He was the first to oppose the translation of Enzinas. ‘To publish the New Testament in Spanish,’ said he, ‘is a crime worthy of death.’
     
  17. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    All hail the prophetess Ellen White!
     
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  18. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Well, here is something I came across which shows where it came from...
    "Here is how Pagan Rome was converted to Papal Rome:

    Roman Empire (Imperium Romanum) renamed: Roman Catholic Church

    Curia (legal body of Senators) slight name change: Curia (legal body of Cardinals)

    Roman Emperor renamed: Roman Pope (head of all church and state affairs)

    Civil government matters of state: Extra-Ordinary affairs (matters of civil-state governments)

    Religious orders matters: Church “ecclesiastical” matters

    Roman College of Senators renamed: College of Cardinals

    Magistrate of College of Senators renamed: Dean of College of Cardinals

    Departments of the Roman Senatorial Curia renamed: Congregations

    Political Ambassador renamed: Pro-Nuncio (highest civil ambassador sent to other governments, ie Washington DC, London etc)

    ......Roman Senators renamed: Cardinals

    Roman Governors renamed: Archbishops

    Roman Senator with no territory: Bishop (Code of Canon Law 376)

    (Large) Roman Province renamed: Archdiocese

    (Small) Roman Territory renamed: Diocese

    Imperial Chair of Jupiter where Caesar sat renamed: Throne of St. Peter

    Vestal Virgins renamed: Nuns

    Pontifex Maximus (high priest of College of Senators) renamed: Supreme Pontiff of College of Cardinals

    Pontiff or “high priest ” of a pagan religious order (Zues, Apollo, Diana, Mars, Jupiter, Baal, Dionysys, Pythia etc) same name: Pontiff

    A Pontiff (Latin: “pontifex”) means bridge-builder or priest between man and the gods of the underworld.

    The Roman Calendar and Holy Days of the gods renamed: Calendar Holidays of the Saints

    Voice of the gods speaking through Caesar: Ex-Cathedra: Voice of God speaking through Pope

    Meeting of the Pontiffs (high priests) of the pagan religious orders renamed: Ecumenical Council of the Bishops

    Legal act of creating a god (of a living or dead human, as was done to most of the Caesars) “Apotheosis of the Gods” renamed: Canonization of the Saints

    A decree of Caesar (dictator for life): Pope’s infallible Dogma

    Praying to a dead human god renamed: Praying to a saint"
    ....Papal Rome as a Continuation of Pagan Rome
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why not focus on the heresies of Ellen White first though?
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There's no doubt the RCC tried hard for a long time to keep Scripture outta the hands of laymen as Scripture exposed some of the RCC's corruption. But, while the Seven-Day-Adlibbers weren't guilty of murder, they ARE guilty of following several false doctrines, many of which were invented by their charlatan of a founder, Ellen G. White.

    I said I won't criticize the Seven-Day-Adlibbers cult for sabbath-keeping, as Paul's admonitions go BOTH ways: We who don't observe the Saturday sabbath shouldn't criticize those who do, & those who do keep iot shouldn't criticize those of us who don't.

    However, I WILL criticize the SDA cult without hesitation for several of their other false doctrines, such as "Jesus is the archangel Michael(Sacrilege !) investigative judgment (Found nowhere in Scripture), and salvation by worx."
     
    #40 robycop3, Apr 15, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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