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Turning His back on Jesus
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Right there was the peak of the Cross, as right there Jesus propitiated/atoned for our sins!
Wages of the sin, death.
Death, unqualified. Pick your own qualification. 1 Cor 1:3 how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Was the Son dead to the Father for three days and three nights because of having been made sin, because of having the iniquity of us all laid on him?
I have some questions concerning some scriptures.
John 5:21 For even as the Father raises the dead and quickens
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Is that, "hath he given," predicated upon, (A) the learned obedience unto death of the Son see Heb 5:7,8 Phil 2:8, and (B) through, the Father raising and quickening? see Gal 1:1 Rom 6:9 Rom 8:11 1 Cor 15:45,46 1 Peter 3:18
A.
who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7.8
and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
B.
Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead -- Gal 1:1
knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship; Rom 6:9
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11
so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46
because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive (quickened) in the spirit,
Can we be given the Holy Spirit because the Son of God obediently went away in death covered by our sin and three days and three nights later received, of the Father, washing of regeneration (quickened in the Spirit which had been committed to the hands of the Father) and then shed upon us?
See Acts 2:32,33
'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
Was the Son of God dead or not? Was the Son without life for three days and three nights.
Why three days? Why, three? I believe to be a good question.
Death, unqualified. Pick your own qualification. 1 Cor 1:3 how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Was the Son dead to the Father for three days and three nights because of having been made sin, because of having the iniquity of us all laid on him?
I have some questions concerning some scriptures.
John 5:21 For even as the Father raises the dead and quickens
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Is that, "hath he given," predicated upon, (A) the learned obedience unto death of the Son see Heb 5:7,8 Phil 2:8, and (B) through, the Father raising and quickening? see Gal 1:1 Rom 6:9 Rom 8:11 1 Cor 15:45,46 1 Peter 3:18
A.
who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7.8
and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
B.
Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead -- Gal 1:1
knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship; Rom 6:9
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11
so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46
because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive (quickened) in the spirit,
Can we be given the Holy Spirit because the Son of God obediently went away in death covered by our sin and three days and three nights later received, of the Father, washing of regeneration (quickened in the Spirit which had been committed to the hands of the Father) and then shed upon us?
See Acts 2:32,33
'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
Was the Son of God dead or not? Was the Son without life for three days and three nights.
Why three days? Why, three? I believe to be a good question.
I can't think of any thing more dreadful than to be separated from God. I know Jesus was paying for our sins but the whole thing pleased God not because of His pain but because Christ was faithful to the end in spite of the pain
Christ may have felt all alone but I can't believe that the Father took His eye off of Christ even for a second because He was on that cross with Him.
MB
for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; ------ Who does that speak of? Who's and who's only, blood, can atone for our souls? The soul that sins,it shall die. Is that speaking of this one, the one who knew no sin, yet was made to be sin?
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
because he hath poured out his soul unto death: from Isa 53:12
How could the Son have died for your sins, if he were not separated from the Father.
If that is what death means to you, then that is what he had to do and or be. Otherwise your sin has not been paid.
Is being separated from, being forsaken?
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
because he hath poured out his soul unto death: from Isa 53:12
How could the Son have died for your sins, if he were not separated from the Father.
If that is what death means to you, then that is what he had to do and or be. Otherwise your sin has not been paid.
Is being separated from, being forsaken?
37818
Well-Known Member
Jesus' soul dying on the cross while yet conscious is evidence of the eternal suffering of dead souls in the lake of fire.
Psalms 22:1, John 10:15-18, Romans 5:8, Psalms 22:6 compare Mark 9:48.
Habakkuk is also about Jesus Christ. The idea the passage proved God turned from Christ was always a very stupid argument that depended on stripping Christ of His deity to work.
In my humbled opinion. The death Christ suffered was the separation of His Spirit from His flesh. I look at it like this.I do not see death of the body as anything more than a separation of flesh and Spirit. You see God is Jesus Christ :
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus died a physical death not a Spiritual death. Neither do men die a Spiritual death when they die physically. Christ did not die a Spiritual death because He told one of the thieves that, that day he would be with Christ in paradise. We know Christ was in the grave 3 days. His body was really dead. Yet after the three days was raised from the dead. His physical body was raised as will all be raised some for judgement and we to life everlasting.
MB
Nope, as Jesus never ceased being God, but was also Human, and in His humanity Father forsoke Him for a time!
If you believe in the trinity the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and that these three are one God then there can never be a separation in God .. This old world could not exist even one minute with out God. The only separation was Jesus from His flesh. The Spirit is eternal and cannot die. If His spirit died then we are all dead. You see Life it self cannot exist with out God. He is our life.
MB
Did I say differently?
MB
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
So Jesus did not have to pay this death for the atonement of our soul?
because he hath poured out his soul unto death: from Isa 53:12 ---- That really is not what took place? Just the flesh died?
having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. Acts 2:31 --- So the soul wasn't raised from Hades and the flesh raised incorruptible?
But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 1 Cor 15:35 This is speaking of dead persons, and what kind of body will that person, soul have.To date only one has been so raised. Thou will not leave my soul in Hades.
45.46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam, a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come (The Word made flesh). Rom 5:14
Is there anywhere in the Hebrew of the OT or the Greek of the NT where the words for death and life are preceded by the word for spiritual or physical? I know neither language.
and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Luke 23:46 The Word made flesh came in the figure of Adam the living soul, Why living soul? Because God made the flesh including the blood from the dust of the ground then breathed into that which was corruptible and inert, spirit, that which gives life and then what was made from the dust of the ground became soul, living. That spirit/life is in the blood and circulates to the cells of the body.
Now when Jesus did that said above from Luke was that spirit/life in the hands of the Father or was it in the Word who had been made flesh? That which had been in his blood making his flesh soul, living was now in the hands of the Father.
What does that leave the soul Jesus? Living or dead? What does it leave the flesh of his body? Living or dead?
Where was the soul the moment the spirit went to the hands of the Father? Where was his body of flesh? Where was his body of flesh six hours after he breathed forth the spirit? Where was the soul? Where was the body of flesh sixty five hours after he breathed forth the spirit into the hands of the Father? Where was the soul?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As flesh and blood, the Word made flesh) that he might destroy the works of the devil.
There's a lot going on here.