Involve you/ participate in.....the difference is??
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World 3:16
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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You are absolutely permitted to post a quotation of me posting (in my words) where I posted you said not to read Scripture, where I posted in my words that Murray said not to read Scripture, or where I posted in my words that the Puritans taught not to read Scripture.
But I do not give you permission to speak for me. You have no right to post what you assume I may have meant by something I have posted.
The reason you can quote me on this thread where I made those statements is that it is relevant to the OP in how we determine correct doctrine.
I think the difference is obvious. But here is an example:
If you insult @Dave Gilbert on this thread then I will moderate that issue. I may edit the thread. I may issue a warning. I may let it slide depending on how inappropriate you are.
If you insult me on this thread then I report the post and allow other staff members deal with you.
In other words, just because someone insults a staff member they do not get a "free pass" to insult other people without being addressed.
Read this thread.
My comment is that Scripture advocates that men have free will but are enslaved to either the flesh or spirit, that the issue is their desires and not their will. Your insults started at that point.
Look, brother, if you have any questions then PM me but stop hijacking threads to use as a tool to slander me. I am a member of this board, a Christian, and a staff member. I have opinions and should not have to deal with being slandered simply because I disagree with you.
I have been a member here for almost 20 years, and a moderator for only a little of that period. I have never received a warning. You have over 30 warnings, have been banned at least 3 times, have warnings from about every staff (I don't think @Salty has given you a one) member to include Calvinists who viewed your behavior as abusive. Please stop. Discuss the topic at hand and stop trolling me, stop insulting me, stop slandering me.
It is easy. Read the topic (here the use of "word" in John 3:16 with a diversion to "free-will"). Deal with the topic. Don't even look at the member making the point if it is an emotional thorn in your side. Deal with what is said, not the person you assume a member to be.
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JonC
You have not shown anything I asked for.
Here you say in your second paragraph that you do not want anyone to speak for you, to assume what you meant,is that correct?
Is your claim that you do not do that? I've given you a perfect opportunity to fully disclose everything openly and publicly. That means you could post any of my posts and I could post any of your post you can pull them from any source that you can find online and I'll pull them from any Source I find online as long as their direct quote this shouldn't be a problem should there be?
In your second paragraph you said you didn't want anyone to assume and speak for you yet I could show 20 or 30 post where I've asked you to stop doing that with me and other people so if you feel that's not true you would have nothing at all to hide and we could proceed with an open thread
We are grown ups on here. right we don't have to hide the women and children you know so grown ups we can just put it out there and just like a wound that needs to be cleansed.
sometime you got to get all the infection out do you put peroxide as some kind of ointment antibiotic in there to get it all cleansed out before It can heal.
You have not shown anything I asked for.
Here you say in your second paragraph that you do not want anyone to speak for you, to assume what you meant,is that correct?
Is your claim that you do not do that? I've given you a perfect opportunity to fully disclose everything openly and publicly. That means you could post any of my posts and I could post any of your post you can pull them from any source that you can find online and I'll pull them from any Source I find online as long as their direct quote this shouldn't be a problem should there be?
In your second paragraph you said you didn't want anyone to assume and speak for you yet I could show 20 or 30 post where I've asked you to stop doing that with me and other people so if you feel that's not true you would have nothing at all to hide and we could proceed with an open thread
We are grown ups on here. right we don't have to hide the women and children you know so grown ups we can just put it out there and just like a wound that needs to be cleansed.
sometime you got to get all the infection out do you put peroxide as some kind of ointment antibiotic in there to get it all cleansed out before It can heal.
Yes. I do claim that I speak for me and am the only person who has the right to tell other people what I mean.
What I am asking is where I posted that you said not to read Scripture, where I posted in my words that Murray said not to read Scripture, or where I posted in my words that the Puritans taught not to read Scripture.
In fact, where have I posted that ANYONE has said not to read Scripture?????
I was asking if this was a really something I said, if it is a "straw man" argument", or if you actually imagined that I posted that. That's all. I was wondering if you believed what you posted was true and accurate or if you were pretending I had posted those things to try and make some point or add weight to what you were saying. That's all.
It is easy, brother. Just quote where I made those statements, unless they were invented for effect. Either way is fine with me. But please trying to slander and insult me. I am not doing that to you. I believe this one point can settle the whole thing and we can get on with the doctrines at hand.
I started the thread as a discussion between me and Reynolds. If there was any hijacking on this thread it came from someone else and I think I know who it was. As far as all your claims I cannot answer you unless we agree to the thread and open thread where we could post and say anything with direct quotes and any Source we find that will support the truth if you're interested in the truth now even that you know as you attack me .
Let us have an open thread and you allow me the privilege I'm answering openly and honestly I don't see where it causes a problem. I have nothing to hide and I'm good with it are you?
For me to answer you requires an open thread where anything can be said without recrimination. Until you're willing to do that I cannot respond because I know from past experience what you will do. You give some statistics on my Banning and all these other factors. Well I could give some statistics on who was the person that is causing most of that that's why an open thread might be beneficial at this point. If it's in the open what do you have to worry about if something is said that's not true you should have no trouble showing it's not true. I on the other hand what also have the ability to show who was posting what. If it is as you say that I have all these issues that you were publicly stated several times across many threads you should have no problem demonstrating that. Now if I and others contend that it's not happening that way but the way we say the burden of proof would be on us to show it. I'm willing to take that risk and go open Everyone likes truth and you sound like you really really enjoy truth so let's put that to the test what do you say?
That is where you were wrong.
If you want to discuss a topic with @Reynolds and have no one else join in then you should do so via PM.
You do not get to pick and choose who you want to engage your threads. We do not censor active members from participating in these threads.
What I am asking you to do is to stop slandering me, stop insulting me, and stop making everything so personal. I disagree with your view of "free-will". So what?
No. I will not open up to allow you to speak whatever you want about me and I will not do so about you. The reason is, as a Christian, I believe we are to be obedient to God. We are to be able to control our tongues and not get carried away by our emotions, we are not to slander other Christians but we are to uplift and encourage others.
For that reason I continue to say that you need to stop your insults and slanders. Get on with the topics at hand. Get on with life.
What you can do is address where you believe I posted that anyone is saying we should not read Scripture. I do not recall thinking that or making the comment.
No. That is not true. For you to answer me only requires you to quote me saying that someone has taught that we should not read Scripture.
I believe that you only want permission to slander me and trample a brother because of the hatred you have shown me over the years. I do not know why you hate me, but I am not going to play that game. For me to engage you in that way, especially if I gave you that type of forum, would be for me to directly encourage sin.
What you want is not what Christ commands of us.
I do enjoy truth, and I am very open and honest (sometimes too much) about myself and my beliefs. At the same time we are commanded to love one another and what you are suggesting seems to be the opposite of Christ's command. It is "walking in darkness". I forgave you long ago for some of the slanderous claims you made about me. I do not know if you believe your claims to be true or know that they were false, and it really does not matter to me. I continue to forgive your insults and slanders, and unlike in the past I have not been personally offended (you do not know me).
I have resolved not to return to where you now stand. By God's grace I moved beyond that place, and although I may occasionally stumble I will not live there.
We can take a poll and see if the members would desire to see such a thread what do you think?
This is not a difficult decision. All we have to do is set up the thread and go for it
This is not a difficult decision. All we have to do is set up the thread and go for it
So you don't want open full disclosure is that what you saying by this long post? Once again I cannot answer unless I'm able to speak openly and freely so that's where it's up to you to proceed forward despite these supposed reasons for not being open and honest. This desire to go to p.m. is troubling. By the way I noticed you still have not provided one or two or 15 quotes of these supposed supposed Slanders and yet you keep saying that I am doing slander and all these other things could you show that could you just quote them you go ahead list 15 and then I'll answer but I'd rather do that in an open Forum with nothing to hide
I've seen many of these movies where someone is put on trial and they were asked to give an account of the truth and yet for some reason they plead the Fifth. Is that what is happening here instead of posting and searching for truth are we pleading the fifth? If as you suggest I'm lying and slandering then you would have no problem being you a valiant for truth to show exactly where and how I did that even though what I promised was direct quotes from you
Hey in the light that was nice of you to share one of your baby pictures I guess I don't know what it has to do with the thread but very nice but it it really doesn't fit in with the discussion. Or was that an image showing that you try to call and have an open honest discussion on the phone but you couldn't get through for some reason or you miss dial the number is that what that was?
I think that I have already made my decision and am not exactly sure what part of it you did not understand.
I believe that slandering other people, anyone but perhaps especially other Christians, is a sin. So if I agree to your desires, which I believe are the desires of the flesh (going back to the OP) and nothing put pride talking, then I believe I would be condoning sin. That is not something I am willing to do.
I suggest that you stop trying to condemn me, stop slandering me, stop insulting me....just stop that agenda all together.
I do not know why you decided to hate me, but I do not believe this is unnoticed by members here. I suspect that most members would join me in saying "Iconoclast, get over it. You are not that important. I am not that important. Stop trying to tear apart other people". Discuss the topics, the doctrines, and the ideas at hand. Fellowship with believers. But end this silly agenda, this crusade you have devised against me.
Not sure why you're struggling so much with this John C? If as you say there is slander going on and we post it openly you can show that it is indeed slander. Now I believe you have committed slander false witness and not telling the truth and I can show it with posts from you.
So how would that be slander if I if I show a post that you directly posted in your own words explain to me how that would constitute slander?
Offering you golden opportunity if it is as you say you could offer me biblical correction openly in front of the whole board and show where I've done what you say. If on the other hand it says I suggest I would be able to show the very things that you say about me or true about you. Now I'm willing I'm willing to subject myself to your version of the truth and you could offer direct quotes to prove your point and you are point of view and at the same time if I'm given the same freedom I would be offered at all for you correction and we can get to the truth the actual truth we could put it all out in the open and then we could see who has a grasp of the truth if that's what you're interested in we could get to it no no accusations on your part that I'm doing something tricky or sneaky know we will just get right at the truth openly not hidden in PM.
I wouldn't make the offer if I couldn't back it up. I think you know I can back it up don't you? Is that why you're reluctant not to do it despite all these long posts of all these Noble reasons why you do not want to do it. Now I'm pretty sure that would be sin involved but it wouldn't be in what was said by someone else about you I think it would be in what was shown to be the truth
Iconoclast,
This is not a movie or a trial. This is a discussion board which is designed to be discussion of doctrine and fellowship among Christians.
Do people sometimes end up at odds due to insults or overly harsh comments? Yes. As a group we do not agree on many things and we all hold our beliefs very personally because they are our beliefs.
I do not share @Reynolds Reformation Arminianism view. I have enjoyed his dialogue and his explanation of his view. He is a brother I can learn from. @Martin Marprelate and I have a bad history of bumping heads. But we reconciled and at least get along. I respect him and have learned form what he has presented even though I strongly disagree on several issues. @Dave Gilbert holds a different view than I, but you do not see him going around trying to slander people's character. @davidtaylorjr and I have had bad encounters (believe it or not I can be a stubborn person), but he has proved himself a godly man and his character shines through his posts. I could go on and on.
But you keep on keeping on. You have decided sometimes in the past that you would hate me. If that is what you need then go ahead. But please hate me as if it were a sin and keep it to yourself. Hide it as if it were being disobedient to God and trampling the blood of Christ. At least give an effort even if it means pretending.
I have no idea what crawled up your skirt, brother, but you need to end your agenda against me. Deal with the doctrine. Stop hijacking threads as your tools to slander me. Stop asking for a forum to engage in ungodly behavior (you will not get it here). Learn from your brothers. Learn from the thread.
How can @Martin Marprelate and I possible disagree so strongly and refrain from insulting and slandering one another? Several reasons come mind. We know that path and where it leads because we walked it for a short time. We have a respect and love for one another because we have been bought with a Price and are not our own but servants of another. We cannot hold each other guilty because of the guilt that has been forgiven us. And we are commanded by our Lord and Savor to love one another.
If it is for pride you have continued, it is misplaced. I can guarantee I am not worth you continuing to forfeit your character. I am not worth trampling the blood that was shed for both of us, to unite us for the Kingdom. If it helps you move on, consider refraining from slandering me as an insult to my value. That's fine. Just get over it and start life. If you stay here, try to use this forum to express a Christ-likeness and encourage others while strongly expressing the doctrine you hold. No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs. Just stop playing the accuser of the brethern. It is not the role to which you were destined.
The answer is the same. No. I am not willing to argue what I have long ago forgiven you of. I am just asking that you find a way to stop hating and move forward. I am asking that you stop slandering me, stop with the insults, and have a godly presence on this board. I am asking that you give up the role of accuser and assume the role of a brother. Discuss doctrine in a godly manner. Stop with the assumptions, accusations, and slander.
Iconoclast said:
[Iconoclast...] I wonder why InTheLight won't call me on the phone and have an open, honest discussion?
I am confident I could go into this open Forum thread and Obey acts 24:16 and have a conscience void of offense towards God and towards man. How about you do you think you could do the same and if you can let's do it
That is fine. Good for you. Acts 24:16 is not the reason I will not. I can't because it would cause me to bring up too much that I've already forgiven you for. Stop trying to get me to be disobedient to Christ's commands.
Those are not just "noble reasons why I do not want to do it".
Believe it or not, there is a part of me that does. BUT those are commands given by my Lord and Savior NOT to do it. So I will not. It is a matter of simple obedience, first and foremost. But it is also a matter of character and sanctification.
I found out last year that when I forgave you all of what you had said, all of your accusations, and moved on that it became not only easier to forgive but in a way forgiveness became its own reward. Perhaps it is prideful, and maybe I need to consider that as well, as I believe that the more you slander me and the more I forgive you the greater the dichotomy is demonstrated between our character. I am sure there is some of that in me. But I hope it is the least part of why I have forgiven you.
Lol..
So that is the real reason.
You do not want to disobey????
Where is that command to not seek out truth?
Accuser of the brethren,false witness?
Those are serious accusations.
I think it can be shown who has done that.
You claim that about 20 times. Here.
But cannot show it. in your words.....
Unsubstantiated opinion. I'm not the one running away from truth I think the reader can see who is avoiding doing this. By the way you're making all kinds of claims to forgiven me for this forgiving me for that the truth is no forgiveness was needed because I didn't do what you said I did. Others are already commented on this past week that you make allegations with no substance and then proceed as if those allegations are true. So I'm giving you the opportunity to show it and at the same time I would have the opportunity to show that it's just the exact opposite of everything you are saying I'm not afraid of that are you? Now this other idea about all Christian love and Christian as well if someone is bearing false witness that's not Christian love is it so how can you move forward if something like that is going on. In scripture we see the apostles had to deal with these issues and sort through it not avoid it and run away and make like they didn't happen.
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