Did the Roman Catholic church actually persecute other Christians?

[Hobie]

Many today don't believe that the Roman Catholic church actually persecuted other Christians or put them to death and yet the record is clear it did.

We look in history and we find the Albigensians which was one of the first Roman Catholic 'crusade' intended to slay other Christians.

'The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and dictates. Then on the command of pope Innocent III in 1209, Bezirs (today France) was destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims including Catholics refusing to turn over their neighbours and friends were up to 70,000.' [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.179-181]

'The Waldensians, and many others were exterminated, in the persecution of the Cathar of Southern Europe, northern Italy, it is estimated one million victims '. [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.183]

In Carcassonne nearly all Cathars of southern France were exterminated and then a Inquisition was set up to search and destroy any who did not hold to the what the church dictated.

We well know the infamous Spanish Inquisition and its vast number killed and the torture used and untold number of burnings. You cant deny that burning at the stake was done as we all know what happened to John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, who was burned at the stake in 1415.

The Church launched a persecution against Hussites, with thousands slain. In France the Huguenots were slaughtered at command of pope Pius V. History shows us it did happen, and they try to deflect and deny by saying it was instigated by rouge bishops or led by overzealous priests, but it was from Rome. This is a good explanation by my buddy Amo of how this action is not Gods church but a apostate church trying to force its false doctrines. 'The deeds of the Church of Rome, in slaughtering countless people who would not agree with her, were evil, and of this world, not of God.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

There is a separation between Christ’s true Church and this world. One’s actions and teachings prove which we are from. The history of the Church of Rome proves they are from the latter.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, sent to Christ’s here on earth, who keep the commandments of God. Nor can the Church of Rome receive the Spirit of truth sent by Christ to His Church, for she has sought to change God’s commandments, and teach men also to disregard some of them. Thus proving once again, that she is not Christ’s church, but the church of this world, usurping the name and authority of Christ. Thus she teaches humanity to ignore certain of the commandments of God, which Christ Himself admonished all humanity to keep.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ is not manifested to the world, but only those who love Him and are in this world. Forced or coerced submission is from beneath, not above. It cannot produce true conversion, and is not acceptable to God. If it was, there would be no sin, or sinners....

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me....

It is the world that persecutes.. not the Church of Christ...

 

[Revmitchell]

Not much different than Ellen White saying she had a vision that bushman of africa were a result of sex with gorillas.

 

[Hobie]

Now this does not include the persecution and killing of the Jews which was a continuing destruction that we see the remnants of even today. The Jewish synagogues were burned and many Jews slain.

'We find that as a result of the Council of Toledo 694, Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized.' . [K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. 450-453]

'When the Crusades began, thousands of Jews were slaughtered all through Europe as they marched to the Holy Land or just got together on their way there. History records the killing of the Jews at Worms, Mainz , Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others.' [S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.]

'The killing of Jews with the churches knowledge if not outright approval continued through all Europe through the 13 century to what we see all the way to World War II by the Nazis. In Spain, Seville's the Jews were killed with the Archbishop Martinez leading. 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.' [K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. 454]

Whole Jewish communities were wiped out and the Jews fled to any corner of the world trying to escape.

Now no one denys the persecution and atrocities commited against the Waldensians. Now interestingly the Waldensians held and preached a number of truths as they read from the Bible. These included:
1.The atoning death and justifying righteousness of Christ
2.The Godhead
3.The fall of man
4.The incarnation of the Son
5.A denial of purgatory as the "invention of the Antichrist"
6.Valued voluntary poverty

They held that temporal offices and dignities were not meant for preachers of the Gospel; that relics were simply rotten bones which had belonged to one knew not whom; that to go on pilgrimage served no end, save to empty one's purse; that holy water was not a whit more efficacious than rain water; and that prayer in a barn was just as effectual as if offered in a church. They were accused of having scoffed at the doctrine of transubstantiation, and of having spoken of the Roman Catholic Church as the harlot of the apocalypse. You can see why they were exterminated as much as possible by the Roman Catholic Church, can have anyone showing the truth of its apostasy.

In Daniel we read that one of the characteristics of the Antichrist is that it would wear out the saints of the Most High:

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws (Daniel 7:25).

The Papacy has a long history of "wearing out" the saints of the Most High.

 

[Walter]

Adventist abortion mills are responsible for how many innocent babies being murdered day in and day out and your church does not change its stance of pro-choice. Talk about hypocrisy!

 

[Hobie]

Adventist abortion mills are responsible for how many innocent babies being murdered day in and day out and your church does not change its stance of pro-choice. Talk about hypocrisy!

Talk about lying!
Seventh-Day Adventist Church Releases Official Statement: “Abortion is out of harmony with God’s plan”

 

[Hobie]

Here is something I came across...

"The church may by divine right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out." (Public Eccliastical, Vol. 2, p.142)

 

[Adonia]

Many today don't believe that the Roman Catholic church actually persecuted other Christians or put them to death and yet the record is clear it did.

We look in history and we find the Albigensians which was one of the first Roman Catholic 'crusade' intended to slay other Christians.

'The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and dictates. Then on the command of pope Innocent III in 1209, Bezirs (today France) was destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims including Catholics refusing to turn over their neighbours and friends were up to 70,000.' [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.179-181]

'The Waldensians, and many others were exterminated, in the persecution of the Cathar of Southern Europe, northern Italy, it is estimated one million victims '. [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.183]

In Carcassonne nearly all Cathars of southern France were exterminated and then a Inquisition was set up to search and destroy any who did not hold to the what the church dictated.

We well know the infamous Spanish Inquisition and its vast number killed and the torture used and untold number of burnings. You cant deny that burning at the stake was done as we all know what happened to John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, who was burned at the stake in 1415.

The Church launched a persecution against Hussites, with thousands slain. In France the Huguenots were slaughtered at command of pope Pius V. History shows us it did happen, and they try to deflect and deny by saying it was instigated by rouge bishops or led by overzealous priests, but it was from Rome. This is a good explanation by my buddy Amo of how this action is not Gods church but a apostate church trying to force its false doctrines. 'The deeds of the Church of Rome, in slaughtering countless people who would not agree with her, were evil, and of this world, not of God.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

There is a separation between Christ’s true Church and this world. One’s actions and teachings prove which we are from. The history of the Church of Rome proves they are from the latter.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, sent to Christ’s here on earth, who keep the commandments of God. Nor can the Church of Rome receive the Spirit of truth sent by Christ to His Church, for she has sought to change God’s commandments, and teach men also to disregard some of them. Thus proving once again, that she is not Christ’s church, but the church of this world, usurping the name and authority of Christ. Thus she teaches humanity to ignore certain of the commandments of God, which Christ Himself admonished all humanity to keep.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ is not manifested to the world, but only those who love Him and are in this world. Forced or coerced submission is from beneath, not above. It cannot produce true conversion, and is not acceptable to God. If it was, there would be no sin, or sinners....

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me....

It is the world that persecutes.. not the Church of Christ...

There was plenty of persecuting by both sides in those days, neither the orthodox Christian church or the Protestants have un-bloody hands. Of course you are innocent as your church was not around back then, but anyway, why do you keep bringing all of this stuff up? Everyone here is aware of what happened regarding this and we cannot move forward if you keep looking back.

 

[Hobie]

There was plenty of persecuting by both sides in those days, neither the orthodox Christian church or the Protestants have un-bloody hands. Of course you are innocent as your church was not around back then, but why do you keep bringing all of this stuff up? Everyone here is aware of what happened regarding this and we cannot move forward if you keep looking back.

But yet it has not been taken out of the books or underlying purpose, why not just take it out and give a statement never to persecute Christians again, and declare Protestants are Christian, not a 'sect'.

 

[Adonia]

But yet none of it has been taken out of the books, why not just take it out and give a statement never to persecute Christians again, and declare Protestants are Christian.

So where is this "persecution" occurring today and who says Protestants are not Christians? Every time you post you are grasping at anti-Catholic straws, just bringing up issues that have no bearing on how the Latin Rite of Christianity conducts itself in todays world.

 

[Hobie]

So where is this "persecution" occurring today and who says Protestants are not Christians? Every time you post you are grasping at anti-Catholic straws, just bringing up issues that have no bearing on how the Latin Rite of Christianity conducts itself in todays world.

Every time you say 'sect' its there and as I said its still in the books, and note below how it is the Pope and not the Bible that is used to determine it.

"The penalties (see ECCLESIASTICAL CENSURES) latae sententiae are: (1) Excommunication specially reserved to the Roman pontiff, which is incurred by all apostates from the Catholic Faith, by each and all heretics, by whatever name they are known and to whatever sect they belong, and by all who believe in them ( credentes), receive, favour, or in any way defend them (Constitution "Apostolicae Sedis", 1869). Heretic here means formal heretic, but also includes the positive doubter, that is, the man who posits his doubt as defensible by reason, but not the negative doubter, who simply abstains from formulating a judgment. The believers (credentes) in heretics are they who, without examining particular doctrines, give a general assent to the teachings of the sect; the favourers (fautores) are they who by commission or omission lend support to heresy and thus help or allow it to spread; the receivers and defenders are they who shelter heretics from the rigours of the law. (2) "Excommunication specially reserved to the Roman Pontiff incurred by each and all who knowingly read, without authorization from the Apostolic See, books of apostates and heretics in which heresy is defended; likewise readers of books of any author prohibited by name in letters Apostolic, and all who retain possession of, or print, or in any way defend such books" (Apostolicæ Sedis, 1869). The book here meant is a volume of a certain size and unity; newspapers and manuscripts are not books, but serial publications intended to form a book when completed fall under this censure. To read knowingly (scienter) implies on the reader's part the knowledge that the book is the work of a heretic, that it defends heresy, and that it is forbidden. "Books . . . prohibited by name in letters Apostolic" are books condemned by Bulls, Briefs, or Encyclicals emanating directly from the pope; books prohibited by decrees of Roman Congregations, although the prohibition is approved by the pope, are not included".....CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heresy

 

[Walter]

Oh yeah, your church has a new statement regarding abortion and it's only has come after being pounded by pro-life groups insisting that the guidelines the church has held for many years and has resulted in hundreds of thousands of babies being murdered by your Adventist hospitals and abortion Mills be revised. Problem is, bucko, your abortion Mills are still turning and slicing and dicing babies everyday.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not much different than Ellen White saying she had a vision that bushman of africa were a result of sex with gorillas.

yes, as "God showed her", that many "races" of humans were substandard due to breeding with animals, wonder if her revelation on that came from same source Hitler had?